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Re:Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the th... by SketchySeaBeast on Thursday August 06, 2020 @04:23PM (#24075064)
> I understand some people treat their home as savings but that's bad in every way for society and for the homeowner. I have a home and the only return I expect on it is to be able to continue living there. I'm certainly not going to depend on it for my retirement, as that would be really unwise.

How else can we think about an expense of hundreds of thousands of dollars? It's ludicrous to spend that much on something assuming it'll just depreciate and fall apart on you, worthless. I understand that you're not paying rent in a home, so it's serving a purpose, but they aren't exactly equivalent in terms of upkeep and taxes.

At this point, given the instability in the market I have no idea what is the wise move to put money into for retirement. Investments have tanked and I don't know at what point they'll recover, interest rates are abysmal, and apparently our homes should be worth nothing. There's really no practical, accessible way to invest.

Re:Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the th... by cactus2093 on Thursday August 06, 2020 @05:20PM (#24075581)
> At this point, given the instability in the market I have no idea what is the wise move to put money into for retirement. Investments have tanked and I don't know at what point they'll recover

With all the instability of a once-in-a-century pandemic, the S&P is still up 1% today from where it was January 1. Specific large companies' stock like Amazon, Apple, and Tesla are up 50-300% since January.

The issue of saving for retirement is complex, thinking on a 10-40 year horizon as the world continues to change and evolve. But this is a bizarre time to be complaining about stocks as an investment.

Re:Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the th... by icedchai on Thursday August 06, 2020 @06:19PM (#24076031)
Except investments generally haven't tanked. NASDAQ is at an all time high... again. In general, if you held or bought more during the March crash, you'd be up now. Every investment I made then is up double digit percentages, some way more. The market is completely divorced from reality. I haven't seen gains like this since the 90's.
Re:Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the th... by supertrope on Thursday August 06, 2020 @05:10PM (#24075492)
>How else can we think about an expense of hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Cars depreciate. Rent, medical services, and groceries don't return any money when you're done using them. Houses should be thought of as consumption first and a store of value second. Sure by buying as soon as you can you are betting on appreciation in value. Houses aren't a good investment compared with even a bond mutual fund. There's a 6% transaction cost, closing costs, you have to pay mortgage interest, property tax, maintenance, insurance, utilities, and maybe even PMI. A single event like a hurricane or unfavorable neighborhood evolution can wipe you out (extreme concentration risk); a single bond issuer declaring bankruptcy is a risk that can be diversified away.

Re:Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the th... by gizmo686 on Thursday August 06, 2020 @04:51PM (#24075336)
From a public policy perspective, encouraging home ownership was arguably a mistake, but that is a seperate issue.

Rental properties are normally cash-flow positive, including payments on their mortgage. This means that buying a comparable unit that depriciates to $0 over a period of 30 years is still expected to be a net positive.

Re:Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the th... by landryraccoon on Thursday August 06, 2020 @05:50PM (#24075846)
> How else can we think about an expense of hundreds of thousands of dollars?

I’m saying buying a home shouldn’t cost that much. See here’s the insidious thing about housing costing so much - when you were younger you surely didn’t want to spend so much on a house. You don’t want your kids to spend so much either. And if you didn’t spend so much you would never have cared so much if it drops in value.

But now that you have spent that much, you want it to cost the same, even though that perpetuates a system that punished you, your kids and your grandkids.

Do you really want to defend this? Does it boil down to yeah it sucks that houses cost so much but now that I have mine I want to slam the door on the younger generation?

Re:Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the th... by int_19h on Thursday August 06, 2020 @05:11PM (#24075502)
If homes were not treated primarily as investments, I don't think you'd be spending that much.

And note that this isn't about things depreciating and falling apart. It's more about various policies that affect house prices indirectly. The existing arrangement, when you distill it down, pretty much means that once somebody becomes a homeowner, they have an economic incentive to make home ownership for other people as hard as possible, because it props their investment (and if they own more than one, and rent some out, lets them raise the rent higher).