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Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:46AM (#24046693)
In fairness, if people drink this everyday, as some do, it's hardly Coca Cola's fault.

It's quite obvious that obesity is caused by a bad diet. People should watch their diet. The rest is just politics: politicians don't want to blame people and companies don't want to be used as scapegoats.

We also need to accept that the vast majority of people are neither victims nor stupid. People do make choices knowing that they are not good for their health. I think that at least some of the anti-experts trend we see is a reaction against being told what to do on the ground that people cannot decide for themselves.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by tiew9Vii on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:28AM (#24047250)
It's Coca-Cola's fault paying scientists to downplay how sweet drinks are related to obesity.

It's Coca-Cola's fault not using morbidly obese people in their marketing campaigns and instead choosing physically fit, attractive people, those who realistically will not be drinking much Coca-Cola to get their gym bods because of the sugar it has.

A 375ml can of coke is 161 calories / 40g of sugar. Two 375ml cans a day is the equivalent of a small meal calorie wise with no nutritional benefit, only 80g of sugar.

People are essentially having multiple meals a day on top of their solid food by drinking soft drinks and unknowingly or through ignorance are in massive calorie surplus.

Anyone who goes to a gym and in good shape knows it's 80% food 20% time working out. Your food is more important than the workout.

It's not in Coca-Cola's interest to educate people advertising CocalCola as a very poor liquid meal consisting of only sugar.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by andor on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @07:49AM (#24048988)
"It's Coca-Cola's fault not using morbidly obese people in their marketing campaigns and instead choosing physically fit, attractive people, those who realistically will not be drinking much Coca-Cola to get their gym bods because of the sugar it has.

A 375ml can of coke is 161 calories / 40g of sugar. Two 375ml cans a day is the equivalent of a small meal calorie wise with no nutritional benefit, only 80g of sugar."

That's the thing, sugar water is not a bad drink for people doing sports. It's common to consume 60-90g of carbohydrates per hour during prolonged endurance exercise (let's say 90min+). Whether that's from gels, sports drinks or Coke doesn't make much of a difference. They are all full of sugar and caffeine. Even glucose-fructose-syrup is fine for sports: there's a limit to how much glucose the colon can absorb in a period of time, because fructose is absorbed via different pathways it helps increase performance.

Outside of sports I wouldn't drink refined sugar myself. But a positive aspect is that a high-sugar diet will not give people diabetes, while a high-fat diet can.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by rightbyte on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @04:02AM (#24047727)
If I remember correctly what I was tough in elementary school it was that pizza and chocolate makes you fat and soda and candy makes your teeth bad.

The sugar obesity link has been clouded by fat (in food) being the same words as being fat, for quite some time I guess. Probably the same thing about getting a cold from being cold?

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @03:57AM (#24047708)
People know that their diet is what make them obese. People know how much sugar there is in Coke and soft drinks.

It is frankly ridiculous to claim that in 2020 people are ignorant or misled.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by ageitgey on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @04:59AM (#24048040)
There's a big difference between what you know as an abstract fact vs. what seems normal in your society. By definition, normal people do what is normal in their society.

I've lived in the southeastern US, various places in California, China and Europe. The type of consumption that is considered normal is so vastly different in all those places.

In the southeastern US, your whole environment is telling you that eating enormous meals, drinking sugary drinks, etc, is totally normal. If you are responsible, maybe you could cut back a little to "watch your health". But you are starting from an unhealthy default setting and you have to dig yourself out of a pit to get back to 'healthy'. This includes Atlanta, the home of Coke (where I went to college and lived several years).

In southern California or even more so in Europe, the norms are vastly different. Meals are much smaller and sugary drinks aren't assumed. Healthier options are available nearly everywhere.

But in Europe, things go much further than even the healthiest parts of the US. The very composition of basic foods is different - brand name foods are less sugary and contain less preservatives than the same brands in the US, staple foods like bread are less shelf stable but contain less additives, and so on. Things like Kraft Mac & Cheese, Snickers bars and Doritos chips are literally illegal in Europe with their original US formulations and are produced with tweaked ingredients. It's in the very DNA of society to default to a more healthy lifestyle. Sure, it's possible to be unhealthy but the default setting of your environment is much healthier so more people are healthy.

The point is that people operate at a default setting that seems normal for their society. Some will be healthy minded and will outperform the norm for their area, but not everyone will. If you want a healthy population, you need a healthy norm and no amount of telling people to take responsibility is going to fix a society if literally every food easily available is bad for you. There is just a mountain of public health evidence that shows this to be true.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by WaxProlix on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:51AM (#24046717)
I don't think that's particularly fair, actually. When you're bombarded with images of attractive people doing a thing, your brain will naturally associate the two. And that's just the obvious ad tilting that anyone can see and everyone agrees with. You and I got educations (probably) and have spent time intentionally building up defenses to this sort of thing (also probably), but it's definitely on the companies for making what amounts to misleading propaganda. To some extent, at least.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by searchableguy on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:56AM (#24046740)
Even intelligent and self aware people will fall for this given a bad environment. You can be aware of how harmful something is while doing it yet won't stop because it feels better on short term.

That's what addiction is and soft drinks definitely fall into that.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by james_s_tayler on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:43AM (#24047331)
Not to mention the trap that those who are addicted to it will often place others in situations where it's more present and can form or reinforce habits in others.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by imtringued on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @03:09AM (#24047484)
Children sit at the same dining table as their parents. It's pretty much guaranteed that they will have the same diet.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by rbecker on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:59AM (#24046764)
Coca-Cola just engineers the environment to maximally exploit human weaknesses. But it is ultimately the people's fault for not being iron-willed über-mensch and resisting temptation.

Whatever the people do to fight this, they should do it individually, and not consider any pesky freedom-infringing legislation (such as banning vending machines in schools, or soft drinks in school cafeterias, or a tax on soft drinks). Act alone - there's one of you, and one Coca-Cola. One versus one - fair, right?

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by hegtor on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:05AM (#24046817)
One versus one? When comparing a single person and a massive corporation? Or I might be missing the sarcasm there maybe
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by Hnrobert42 on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:38AM (#24046983)
You are missing it. ;-)
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by licebmi__at__ on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:57AM (#24046748)
It's nor really about what people do. Is about what society can do.

Society can and should impose costs and penalties for the behavior that is costing everyone. Coca cola is not lobbying for individuals not realizing sugar is bad and stop buying their products, they're lobbying against a sugar tax, or if you don't like taxes, against the insurance companies having justification to implement a coca cola clause.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by parineum on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:07AM (#24046837)
Without public healthcare, I don't see a justification for taxes on things that cause poor health.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by Spooky23 on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:51AM (#24046720)
It’s marketed like cigarettes. The number of activities associated with Coke is astounding.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by remarkEon on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:53AM (#24046728)
One of the hard lessons I learned when I was younger was that some (or many, depending on the sample population we're talking about) don't actually have as much agency as you do, or as much agency as they like to pretend. It's a hard lesson, because it rubs up against many of the core values you grow up with in a country like the US - freedom of choice, personal responsibility, etc. So, yeah, people really should watch their diet, but that's only a part of the broader issue.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:56AM (#24046743)
Gorging on soft drinks is a choice. Trying to pass off people as victims is counterproductive but the easy thing to do politically.

Of course, 'some' people will always do something. This is not an argument because if we go that way we ought to ban everything.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by nomofomo2 on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:01AM (#24047103)
No, blaming it on a lack of discipline or willpower is the easy thing to do, and it's what we've BEEN doing, all while enabling companies like Coca-Cola to mass produce addictive, sugary garbage. We're all victims of our own biology. For most of human history we didn't have easy access to cheap sugar, which absolutely lights up pleasure centers of the brain. Companies like Coca-Cola exploit this, and I truly can't believe we still have to argue this. So I'll say it again: food companies exploit the human brain for profit. This will never not be true as long as we keep doing what we're doing.

Is there a place for the occasional Coke in a healthy world? Absolutely. Life's short, enjoy a Coke once in a while. But does Coca-Cola (the company) need to advertise it literally everywhere while getting massive corporate welfare at the expense of the world's health? Probably not.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by james_s_tayler on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:49AM (#24047365)
I think this is the correct perspective.

Humans are full of exploitable bugs/features.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by Hnrobert42 on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:53AM (#24047060)
There is a middle ground. People are responsible for their actions, but so are corporations. If the conclusions in this article are correct, Coke deliberately misled people.

So do we say to society, “Coke would have you believe it’s calories vs. calories out. Run a mile. Drink a Coke. It’s all good. The truth, though, is that it is mostly about diet. However, Coke can say whatever it wants. It’s a free country. If you can’t figure it out, if Coke fights to shape news, medical publications, educational material, and every other way you could find the truth, well, sucks to be you.”?

Or do we say, “Coke misled you. They will be held responsible for their actions corporately and individually. Here is what literature not funded by motivated parties says. It says that if you drink a lot of Coke, whether you exercise or not, you will get fat. If you are ok with that, fine. If not, now you know.”?

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:27AM (#24047242)
The issue here is again assuming that studies and expert knowledge is required to determine whether drinking too much soft drinks and/or having a bad diet is bad for health and causes obesity.

Even if that was not obvious, which it is, it becomes so very quickly as you start putting on weight. Similarly, it is obvious and well-known that burning more calories means being able to eat more calories.

People know all that.

Those studies and the attempts at influencing results are mostly political. These studies are tools to influence policy. That's why you have plenty of studies paid for by plenty of pressure groups and which results magically serve the interests of these pressure groups (whatever the side of the argument, or the topic). If you want to have a law passed you need tools to help you. If you want to prevent that you also need tools.

Of course on scientific studies can be very important on many issues, but on this one really they are not to uncover anything Earth-shattering.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by zepto on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:00AM (#24046776)
Are you suggesting that advertising doesn’t work?
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:04AM (#24046807)
That's not the problem. Ads may influence consumption but (over-)consumption is a choice.

It's a fallacy to conflate both.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by zepto on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:08AM (#24046839)
If ads increase consumption then they increase overconsumption too.

Claiming otherwise would require an explanation.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by james_s_tayler on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:46AM (#24047352)
I suppose gorging on heroin is too.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by imtringued on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @03:01AM (#24047429)
There is quite a large difference between a handful of individuals becoming more obese and everyone becoming more obese.

> In fairness, if people drink this everyday, as some do, it's hardly Coca Cola's fault.

It's hardly coca cola's fault that they paid scientists to lie? This article is not about individual behavior.

>It's quite obvious that obesity is caused by a bad diet.

It's less obvious when a company uses its market power to distort science and encourage bad diets.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by ssijak on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:59AM (#24046759)
There is also a problem of marketing junk to kids, and parents buying that junk for their kids who cant know better.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:55AM (#24047398)
I have children. When they see some ad and ask me to buy something, if I think it's not a good idea I just say 'no'. That's a parent's job to do so.

Marketing does not cause bad parenting.

But, again, politicians find it less risky to tell people (electors...) "Oh poor you, you're doing all you can and you're doing a great job but those companies undermine you with all those ads" rather than "You're a parent, take your responsibilities and do your job". And unfortunately some people buy that because it's also more comfortable than facing the music.

Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by hegtor on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:09AM (#24046847)
It is possible to tax unhealthy products to compensate for the toll they create on people health and subsequent costs to society. Tobacco is heavily taxed, and so is alcohol. While buying coke is close to the price of mineral water.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by p1necone on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:01AM (#24046778)
Personal responsibility doesn't work in aggregate.
Re:Coca-Cola paid scientists to downplay how sweet drinks fu... by arvinsim on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:50AM (#24046710)
There are general guidelines on what food is good for your but there is no universal “good” or “bad” diet.

Before, fats were demonized. Now it’s carbs and sugars. Who knows what “good” diet will constitute in the future.