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Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by p_l on Monday August 03, 2020 @03:27PM (#24042216)
The problem with biofuels in aviation is that the most common available forms have... problems with storage and weight of the system. Because ethanol evaporates too fast, which is the same reason why aviation still uses leaded gasoline, and why ethanol additives are very limited.

Remember, aviation fuels need to work way above 10km above sea level.

Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by jeffreyrogers on Monday August 03, 2020 @03:35PM (#24042315)
I'd assume ethanol would be converted to something like kerosene, since that's what jet engines burn anyways. But without regulation I don't see the incentive to use biofuels. They're significantly more expensive and don't offer any performance benefits. Hydrogen has the same problems btw.
Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by woodandsteel on Monday August 03, 2020 @09:11PM (#24045456)
One gigantic advantage for synfuel kerosene that is carbon-neutral because it is produced with renewable energy, is you can continue to use the present airliner fleet. With hydrogen you have to spend many trillions of dollars replacing it.

Furthermore, replacing all the planes would take many decades, while synfuel kerosene might go into production much sooner.

Do the hydrogen airliner boosters take all that into account?

Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by avmich on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:29AM (#24046943)
> Do the hydrogen airliner boosters take all that into account?

Sure, and other things too, like combustion benefits and hazards. But regarding your money worries - they don't need to happen overnight, just like electric cars don't replace gasoline ones suddenly.

Hydrogen fundamentally more potent fuel than kerosene - both by energy density and heat characteristics. Like with other commercial technologies, to be accepted it has to change traditions somewhat, which isn't easy. Safety is another important matter - it remains to be seen if hydrogen can be safely brought onboard to regular commercial liners, though advancements demonstrated by Toyota Mirai remind that progress doesn't stand still.

Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by woodandsteel on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @07:03PM (#24055443)
It may well be that hydrogen is the fuel of the future for airlines. The problem is that with the rate global climate change is happening, we can't wait decades for a solution. We need something as soon as possible, and as far as I can tell, synfuel kerosene could replace fossil fuel kerosene decades sooner than hydrogen could. Do the hydrogen boosters address this concern?
Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by p_l on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:18PM (#24052214)
carbon-neutral Jet A1 would be very nice, but so far the only case of it being used is the newest USN supercarrier, which can throw efficiency to the trash and has immense amounts of "extra power" from reactors that it can throw at it.

I wouldn't mind a future where we use syntin-based fuels or similar for aviation and push for max renewables and nuclear for power elsewhere.

Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by Denvercoder9 on Monday August 03, 2020 @03:48PM (#24042467)
> Because ethanol evaporates too fast, which is the same reason why aviation still uses leaded gasoline

Not really. Most of commerical aviation doesn't use leaded fuel anymore, and general aviation uses leaded gasoline because it is technologically still mostly stuck in the sixties.

Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by p_l on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:20PM (#24052234)
Most commercial aviation doesn't use leaded fuel because it uses Jet-A1 instead of AVGAS 100LL.

Replacements for currently used anti-knocking agents are searched for, but less so specifically because most commercial use involves Jet-A1, and low-end general aviation uses MOGAS where possible due to general lower prices (though those tend to vary - sometimes AVGAS 100LL can be wildly cheaper than MOGAS)

Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by kevin_thibedeau on Monday August 03, 2020 @03:46PM (#24042444)
Avgas is leaded because it is used as an octane booster and an anti-wear coating for valve seats.
Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by p_l on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @01:22PM (#24052251)
Replacements for tetraethyllead have unfortunate negative effects fuel evaporation and general characteristics in lower pressure / higher temperature environment.
Re:The challenges of hydrogen for airliners, part 2: ecosystem by jandrese on Monday August 03, 2020 @03:35PM (#24042312)
This seems like an easier problem to solve than converting to H2.