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Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by dannyw on Sunday August 02, 2020 @09:06PM (#24033174)
To be honest, just how bad of a thing is this? It’s a direct financial punishment for a company with lax security practices. It encourages greater security practices.

The money is funnelled to a criminal group, but what difference does it make? Some people consider the USG to be a criminal group; many people are out on the streets for that. My tax dollars directly go to corrupt crooks and nonexistent companies claiming billions for nonexistent PPE.

As a member of society, I don’t care if I’m paying a professional ransomware group, or a professional corruption gang.

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by ryan_j_naughton on Sunday August 02, 2020 @09:15PM (#24033217)
> It’s a direct financial punishment for a company with lax security practices. It encourages greater security practices.

That argument could be used to justify any theft or even kidnapping.

I know many people who grew up in countries where kidnapping was a very real concern. Consequently, they had to adopt "greater security practices" and it had a very real, negative effect on their lives.

There are real harms to randomware. Companies go out of business, people lose their jobs, people lose their service providers, etc.

To say, "it serves them right for not following proper security" literally can be said for a mom/pop business in a poor neighborhood who didn't have bulletproof glass or bars on their windows. It is negating the fact that (a) the harms are very real and (b) security costs money and resources, which is effectively another tax on their business.

If instead the government made it illegal to pay such ransoms and actively audited large BTC transactions and charged people accordingly, then we could get rid of the incentives to do this in the first place.

The government should similarly hold firms accountable when they are hacked (due to the harms on consumers) and require prompt disclosure of any hacks.

There are ways to incentivize the preferred outcomes without supporting the active theft of property and destruction of someone's business.

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by scrollaway on Sunday August 02, 2020 @10:44PM (#24033726)
Physical and digital security aren't the same thing. There's no such thing as "this website is in a bad internet neighbourhood and should take extra precautions".

I get where you're coming from but you can't really just flat out say "you can justify kidnapping with the same logic". Like, no, you can't. Fully agreed the government should be the ones playing the role of incentivizing security, but you can't then go back and say that security takes time and money those companies should not have to spend. They should, regardless of who keeps them accountable for it...

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by MattSayar on Monday August 03, 2020 @12:08PM (#24039526)
In addition, the company isn't the only victim in a ransomware attack, its customers are too.

And does anyone really believe the hackers deleted the data off their own servers? They can easily double-dip by selling that information. It's valuable, so why would they delete it?

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by dannyw on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:09AM (#24047154)
Double dipping ruins the reputation of the hackers and future income potential.
Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by sumedh on Sunday August 02, 2020 @10:55PM (#24033781)
> The government should similarly hold firms accountable when they are hacked

What should the govt so when govt agencies get hacked?

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by koolba on Sunday August 02, 2020 @09:21PM (#24033251)
> As a member of society, I don’t care if I’m paying a professional ransomware group, or a professional corruption gang.

The kidnapping analogy makes for a better understanding of why paying ransoms is bad for everybody else. If kidnappers know, or really just think, that they’ll get paid, they’re more likely to kidnap and hold hostages.

It’s not that companies are not solely responsible for their own lax security policies. It’s that incentivizing the exploiting of them is bad for society.

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by onion2k on Monday August 03, 2020 @03:46AM (#24035096)
It encourages greater security practices.

I don't think it does. It puts a much more tangible value on security, which encourages businesses to do a risk analysis like 'Do we spend $1m on security every year, or accept that there's a 0.xxx probability of a $4.5m ransom every n years?' That cost base analysis is often used to reduce the value of things that aren't obvious profit centers.

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by benlumen on Monday August 03, 2020 @07:32AM (#24036417)
> To be honest, just how bad of a thing is this? It’s a direct financial punishment for a company with lax security practices. It encourages greater security practices.

I see your point but this is flat-out organized crime, extortion to be precise. How long will it be before we're all making protection payments to ransomware groups?

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by usrusr on Monday August 03, 2020 @10:11AM (#24037974)
A difference to physical "protection" schemes is that the group you'd pay to might actually keep other groups out of what they consider their turf. Ransomware attacks are not geographically bound so I really doubt that similar structures would develop there. With growing numbers of ransomers demands just wouldn't stop until either the company runs out if money or security gets good enough to keep them out.
Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by benlumen on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @04:41AM (#24047931)
Good point, not a great analogy. My sentiment was the risk of this becoming normalized and even formalized.

When I was (a lot) younger, I had a pet theory that the anti-virus companies were making the viruses and that it was a sort of protection racket.

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by markdown on Monday August 03, 2020 @07:57AM (#24036569)
What makes crime "organised"? There's no indication that this involved more than one thief.
Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by stagger87 on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:10AM (#24038675)
Organized crime has a specific meaning. Whether this particular outfit is one or more people has no bearing on the use of the term organized crime in this instance.
Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by markdown on Monday August 03, 2020 @05:37PM (#24043757)
I asked:

> What makes crime "organised"?

Your answer is:

> Organized crime has a specific meaning

Well... what is it?

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by stagger87 on Monday August 03, 2020 @07:22PM (#24044680)
Sorry, I didn't think you might not be able to search for it. Here's a link.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime

Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by markdown on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @05:55AM (#24048346)
The link says you're wrong, and that in fact you can't have organised crime without at least two people.
Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by DownGoat on Monday August 03, 2020 @02:23AM (#24034716)
It sucks for the people who got their personal information caught up in this. They do more than just encrypt your files, they typically siphon as much data as possible from the companies before they execute the ransom part.
Re:US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat by frequentnapper on Sunday August 02, 2020 @09:16PM (#24033220)
I agree. It's a trade-off, especially if you're a startup or a company with a hot product trying to beat competitors to market. Security practices would translate to loss of opportunity, so maybe it's a worthwhile trade-off to pay 1% of the gained revenue to these kinds of threats as a company. Unless there are harsher penalties and victims start caring more (and are given more tools and power to punish the companies that make that trade-off), this situation will remain.

But then again, this makes the barrier to entry even higher for newcomers and gives an unfair advantage to the entrenched players. Tragedy of the commons?