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Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by hankchinaski on Sunday August 02, 2020 @02:48AM (#24026845)
nurses, teachers, HR and many more professions are overwhelmingly female dominated, yet nobody is complaining about that, is it? why does gender and race matter when what it takes is skills, competence, intelligence? why is it so hard to understand that univariate analysis is nonsense?
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by bb111 on Sunday August 02, 2020 @03:06AM (#24026932)
Actually, the discussion around nurses/teachers being overly female and how it impacts the salaries in the field is widely discussed in sociology and feminist theory. The idea that professions dedicated to "care" (healthcare, childcare, or even human ressources which demand "people skills") are overwhelmingly female and underrated is a staple of a lot of conversations around gender, workforce and income gaps between men and women.

edit : corrected a typo

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by burfog on Sunday August 02, 2020 @04:43AM (#24027332)
The idea that those professions are lower-paid because they are mostly female is pretty strange. It would require a vast and secret conspiracy. The scandal would dwarf the secret Silicon Valley agreement (involving Apple, Google, Adobe, Intel) by many orders of magnitude.

You can make a reasonable argument that the causation goes the other way, with men giving higher priority to money when choosing a career. This makes sense, because a male's career has a huge impact on dating success.

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by tasogare on Sunday August 02, 2020 @05:38AM (#24027549)
> It would require a vast and secret conspiracy.

This conspiracy theory has been given a name, which is widely use in feminist circles: the Patriarchy.

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by foldr on Sunday August 02, 2020 @05:53AM (#24027610)
It used to be routine to openly pay women less than men merely because they were women. No vast conspiracy was required then, so why would it be now?
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by manigandham on Sunday August 02, 2020 @06:26AM (#24027717)
Things have changed in the last few decades. Every company would just hire women to save money if it was so simple.

The reality is that there are many factors that determine how much you are individually paid. Two people of the same gender, role and title can have vastly different compensation because of negotiations.

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by cloudier on Sunday August 02, 2020 @08:59PM (#24033136)
> Not only did competition not end discrimination, there was enough discrimination that the act of not discriminating provided a significant competitive advantage for Townsend-Greenspan. And this is in finance, which is known for being cutthroat. And not just any part of finance, but one where it's PhD economists hiring other PhD economists. This is one of the industries where the people doing the hiring are the most likely to be familiar with both the theoretical models and the empirical research showing that discrimination opens up market opportunities by suppressing wages of some groups. But even that wasn't enough to equalize wages between men and women when Greenspan took over Townsend-Greenspan in 1958 and it still wasn't enough when Greenspan left to become chairman of the Fed in 1987. That's the thing about discrimination. When it's part of a deep-seated belief, it's hard for people to tell that they're discriminating.

> In tech, some people are concerned that increasing diversity will "lower the bar", but in sports, which has a more competitive hiring market than tech, we saw the opposite, increasing diversity raised the level instead of lowering it because it means hiring people on their qualifications instead of on what they look like. I don't disagree with people who say that it would be absurd for tech companies to leave money on the table by not hiring qualified minorities. But this is exactly what we saw in the sports we looked at, where that's even more absurd due to the relative ease of quantifying performance. And yet, for decades, teams left huge amounts of money on the table by favoring white players (and, in the case of hockey, non-French Canadian players) who were, quite simply, less qualified than their peers. The world is an absurd place.

https://danluu.com/tech-discrimination/

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by manigandham on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:38AM (#24039087)
"diversity raised the level instead of lowering it because it means hiring people on their qualifications instead of on what they look like"

It would be absolutely wonderful if everything was a meritocracy like this, and it's what most people ask for.

Unfortunately in the tech industries and modern media, "diversity" initiatives are the exact opposite and only want people based on what they look like.

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by foldr on Monday August 03, 2020 @05:47AM (#24035784)
Why didn't every company in every industry hire women to save money 50 years ago? You seem to be begging the question at issue by simply assuming that sexism doesn't still exist now.
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by manigandham on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:35AM (#24039035)
There weren't that many qualified. Education and career pipelines were different, training was different, expectations were different. Are you saying nothing has changed in 50 years?

Sexism exists (and perhaps it would be more productive if you stopped only believing in binary extremes) but it's not a widespread conspiracy. Did you skip the line about the same gender/title/role still being paid differently?

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by steve_g on Sunday August 02, 2020 @08:44AM (#24028348)
It's clearly illegal now, so that would be a good reason to keep it on the down low. I'm not saying there is a conspiracy, just that one might be useful here.
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by imtringued on Sunday August 02, 2020 @02:26PM (#24030430)
Hypercapitalism would make it unprofitable to not hire women if they consistently ask for lower wages the same way it is unprofitable to not hire chinese labor. People are just fungible resources, the cheaper the better.
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by GlennS on Sunday August 02, 2020 @05:34AM (#24027528)
I would bet that male nurses do pretty well with dating.
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by CMCDragonkai on Sunday August 02, 2020 @03:37AM (#24027067)
It's important not to forget there's alot of self-selection going on too.
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by DanBC on Sunday August 02, 2020 @03:06AM (#24026923)
> nurses, teachers, HR and many more professions are overwhelmingly female dominated, yet nobody is complaining about that, is it?

When is the last time you read a nursing magazine, or did a web search for information about increasing the numbers of male nurses?

People do complain about these things.

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by acituan on Sunday August 02, 2020 @03:35AM (#24027063)
The difference is for some sectors this topic appears frequently on the mainstream media while what you suggest requires checking dedicated specialists publications or active intention of search. That is precisely the problem, what determines the difference in which sectors’ diversity problems deserve most public attention and why.
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by foldr on Sunday August 02, 2020 @05:54AM (#24027612)
The issue of the gender ratio in nursing does appear in the mainstream media too.
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by acituan on Sunday August 02, 2020 @01:07PM (#24029900)
I'm sure there is an odd piece here and there. But certainly not covered as frequently and as prominently as tech. To give context, US has almost exactly the same number of software engineers and nurses (~4 million).
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by foldr on Monday August 03, 2020 @05:48AM (#24035797)
Evidence for this? Tech overall is in the news more than nursing, but there are many stories about male nurses in the mainstream media every year.
Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by mpweiher on Sunday August 02, 2020 @04:53AM (#24027373)
> People do complain about these things.

But how do they complain? Compared to the tech situation, where you don't dare think it might be anything but sexism and oppression.

Here's an article in the Guardian about the topic.

https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2017/mar/01/w...

Some choice excerpts:

“Nursing is all about the empathy and caring that people show, but those traits are not exclusively female [..]”

Let's see, "Tech is all about logic, but those traits are not exclusively male".

“Men might find it harder to put into words their caring and compassionate qualities, but can demonstrate them more easily.”

-> "Women find it harder to express their technical chops, but they can demonstrate them more easily"

"When I was a ward manager, or sister, I did get some people saying: “Shouldn’t you be a brother?” But, actually, no one has ever commented on the fact that I’m a matron and a man."

-> Tech language is sexist and must be changed.

"Davies questions whether it is the work itself that doesn’t attract men, or whether other factors are to blame"

-> If you even dare to suggest that something other than horrible sexism is to blame for the imbalance in tech, no matter the overwhelming evidence, you are censured or fired.

Re:Tech Journalism Is Less Diverse Than Tech by watwut on Sunday August 02, 2020 @06:10AM (#24027659)
Lack of male teachers was discussed ever since I was a kid. Just because you don't care about that topic does not mean it does not exists. The guy teachers were supposed to be role models for boys.