Got a bit sick of the attitude that CS is programming. Switched to Data Science and after a while I’m starting to see Data Scientists that can’t do even basic math. With 6 lines of copy pasted code they’ve made a dnn. They know how to separate into test sets and that’s it. I really feel we need certifications that people actually respect because this is just the ultimate lemon market.

Now my colleagues are just PhDs and I couldn’t be happier. But still I do worry about the field. What will math heavy fields do in the future? Slap theoretical in front of the course as to not make self-learners self-conscious?

I think the reason has multiple dimensions:

1) most jobs, outside of fundamental R&D don’t require deep levels of understanding because they are more in the vein of “get ‘er done” type of work. Truth is, PhDs are over qualified for many (most?) jobs

2) some people simply want a credential and do a brain dump immediately after university

3) as you alluded to in a different comment, hiring managers often don’t have the technical chops to separate the wheat from the chaff

Heck one of my friends has more than double my salary because he said he was a specialist in a marketing software he never heard of before the interview. Now, a year later no one is the wiser and he can buy a new Tesla twice a year (still jealous).

I think a lot has to do with bosses that never started from the bottom so they aren’t great at interviewing, because they have no clue about non-management things. Then they have no clue how productive people should be or even what to measure besides “Sprint points”.

And some with genuine DS/statisticians. Also the first kind of project almost always end up hiring statisticians in the end, so realistically, having "glorified data analysts" that can sell to the consortium or kickstart project is enough.

Many people can self-learn. Those same people often cannot perform well in school because school is rigid and authoritarian.

I'm definitely one of them and my career refutes your idea quite heavily. I'm absolutely not the only one.

Doubling down on debt and the system with another advanced degree is dangerous advice.

If you cannot self-learn, you find out relatively fast and with little cost. Not true for the above advice.

So... labor isn't uniform?

> Doubling down on debt and the system with another advanced degree is anti-advice.

Becoming a medical doctor is anti-advice? Is attending Harvard Law or Stanford's CS PhD program also anti-advice? I know this is a tech forum, but jeeze. The lack of appreciation for the world of fulfilling career choices outside pounding out code and managing people who pound out code is a bit concerning.

I guess there's a small population of people who aren't good at school but can self-learn how to program. I agree that for those people a DIY CS degree is good advice.

However, I also think that there's a substantial intersection between people who would get bored doing generic software dev and people who can self-learn CS.

Are you still talking about college here? For a lot of classes, I commonly skipped class and taught myself the topics. In some fields like math that was practically the system even if you attended: Step 1: attend lectures that go too fast and lose you at some point, providing little more than a roadmap to use. Step 2 go home and teach the material to yourself. Step 3 attend exams to quantify how well you did.

It’s too much for me to seriously consider going back for medicine, tbh. I’d have about 3 years of part time classes at community college or online, maybe less if you could squeeze more in each semester.

Law school requirements where I live aren’t as significant, in fact I don’t think there are any. So I have considered sitting for the LSAT... Family of doctors and lawyers so the thought of going back to school is always on my mind.