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Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by Alex3917 on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @10:31AM (#23917406)
It also doesn't make any sense from an investment perspective. Reddit would have been one of the most successful YC companies of all time, except for that they basically had to shut down because they couldn't raise money. This happened to lots of early YC companies that could have otherwise been successful.

Had Reddit not sold for pennies on the dollar to Conde Nast, that alone would have probably paid for the extra 100k for every YC startup since.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by awillen on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @12:28PM (#23918719)
Great point. People think a willingness to take extreme financial risks is somehow a useful personality trait when it comes to entrepreneurship because of selection bias. People who take that risk and make it tell that story. People who take that risk and don't make it aren't heard from. People who don't take that risk also aren't heard from.

There are lots of people with great ideas and the ability to execute on them who also have a deep sense of financial responsibility that precludes them from going 50k into credit card debt.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @02:10PM (#23919863)
As one who bootstrapped, took that risk, and lost ... everything ... I've been talking passively about this for a while.

I speak with startups who have a product that is poorly differentiated, me-too like, that think they are going to take over the world. The reality, the vicious Darwinian reality, is that you and your team have to bust your collective rear-ends. And get lucky.

Really, I hate to deflate many many bubbles, but being at the right place at the right time is often the deciding factor for success or failure. IMO moreso than the product, the product market fit, etc. You have to be seen as the sole provider of something the people deem important. Even if this isn't really true. You need influencers to drive carefully staged hype, and then you need to be able to convert small victories into evidence the hype is real.

This is very ... very hard for bootstrapped companies, operating on shoestring budgets at best.

The greatest lie ever told to entrepreneurs like me is "build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door." There is soooo much more than that. And the cost to you, financially, mentally, physically, will be huge. Not can be. Will be.

If you are lucky, you will have a reasonable exit. Most of the time that doesn't happen.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by Melting_Harps on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @07:13PM (#23922576)
> I speak with startups who have a product that is poorly differentiated, me-too like, that think they are going to take over the world. The reality, the vicious Darwinian reality, is that you and your team have to bust your collective rear-ends. And get lucky.

Even being Early (or in our case the first to do something) doesn't always work, we had to give our services away for free, or at a significant loss when operating costs were accounted for, because we were using technology that was not really understood (much less by our demographic) and had not been attempted in the past to facilitate or service the Industry we chose. So we had to engage our future paying customers in a way that they relied on us for something they found useful and pay for it in the future, so I boot-strapped and fell back on my other skill-sets, that ultimately took time from further development that could have otherwise yielded a better product in less time, but again... uncharted territory means you are make the Map as you go along, with all the mistakes and hidden landmines along the way.

> This is very ... very hard for bootstrapped companies, operating on shoestring budgets at best.

I'd say Bootstrapping is a Pyrrhic Victory, because on a financial level, had I decided to stay on the sidelines and just DCA while trimming the fat from my budget working a normal day job, as so many now in this space did, I'd have an ROI way better than my Startup, and most ever created in that space for that matter, ever was. They thought they were geniuses, when in reality they were just 'free-riders' that directly benefited from the work done by risk takers and people who actually did the heavy lifting to get the project to where it was and currently is. But ultimately looking at our holdings and net-worth on paper wasn't the point for some of us, it was to bring our vision into existence and prove a technology could solve far more problems than even it's core developers and even the greater community at large could ever think it could and bring about a desirable change to the Enviorment. And for that it takes a lot of sacrifice, which ultimately made me understand that 'disruption isn't always profitable' is a very true statement in a financial sense, but can be very profitable if you're goals are to do more than that. It's just how you quantify it.

> And the cost to you, financially, mentally, physically, will be huge. Not can be. Will be.

Agreed. Still dealing with that to this day. Just my Physical Therapy costs alone have been something I didn't anticipate to be so expensive in every sense of the word.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:12PM (#23923234)
Excellent post. I messed up my back a few years ago on a long trip. Messed up my workout routine. Just got it fixed a week before Covid.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by Alex3917 on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @04:01PM (#23920970)
But if you're bootstrapping you can just make money doing consulting for a few months each year. Between having a job or having a VC-backed company, bootstrapping seems like arguably the lowest risk option of the three.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @04:26PM (#23921204)
I did that at the beginning. Until I had enough cash to build and market product. But it was barely enough cash.

Then big orders started hitting.

Before I knew it, we were at $3MM/y sales, growing about 33% yoy.

And then we crashed. We needed more capital. Those who wanted to put money in via convertible notes demanded terms that would have killed the company's ability to raise capital going forward. Our lawyers told us that it appeared that the large company wanted to buy us on the cheap, and these terms enabled that.

I've replayed that in my head many times. It was a crappy deal, and they weren't willing to budge. But I would have had a sort-of-exit had they exercised one of the convertible clauses, to basically demand payment in full if we couldn't raise more money.

If someone tells you corporate VC is less slimy than the regular version, don't believe them. Different type of slimy, but still slimy.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @04:35PM (#23921289)
I should also point out that this is a common misconception for hardware/solution companies. Very hard to make enough money to fund R&D with consulting. I did that for the first 4 years of the company.

Put bluntly, that model, the consulting bit, is not for the faint of heart. It is just as hard, as in you absolutely have to hustle hard this whole time, to get business. Leaving you with precious little time to develop your ideas.

I've lived it. I don't recommend it, without a partner with a strong income. My wife was a stay-at-home mom for part of this time, and worked at a school as a teacher. Not sufficient income to live off of for 1 person in a house with a mortgage. Nevermind a family.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by Alex3917 on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @04:58PM (#23921507)
Right, it doesn't really work if you need to spend a lot of time selling consulting. It works better if you write a bestselling book at some point so that you're recognized as the #1 person in your field, and then you just have a waitlist of clients willing to pay $250 an hour or whatever. That way you can just consult a few months a year and still support a family, and then spend the rest of the year working full time on your startup.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by sebiw on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @02:23PM (#23920015)
I understand what you say and I assume you have more experience than me in this field.

But even if you fail, that's experience too. If you have a dream, I strongly encourage you to pursue it. It is usually more painful to look back in hindsight and one day wake up to a reality where you never even tried.

To whoever is reading this: Try. Then try again. Then try another. And don't forget to look after yourself and your loved ones.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @02:34PM (#23920134)
There is a saying in karate. Fall down 7 times. Get up 8.

But also, definitely, make sure you are not going to be financially destroyed by your actions. Take time to be with your family. Remain focused upon your life, and life goals.

Do I regret my time building some of the insanest things in market (at the time)? No.

It was an itch, I had to scratch.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by mgkimsal on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @03:42PM (#23920771)
"make sure you are not going to be financially destroyed by your actions".

this 1000 times.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by sangnoir on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @01:23PM (#23919353)
And often, getting credit card debt is not a material risk, but a minor embarrassment when they ask their family to bail them out and/or move in the guest house for a few months, rent-free. When poorer folk take the "same" risk, they can be ruined for decades.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @02:15PM (#23919919)
Here here. When you empty your 401k to build your business, and don't contribute to it for 15 years while you are building, as you simply don't have the cash, and cannot afford it ...

Yeah. The implicit assumptions of the "live in poverty" of the OP, are wrong.

I'm 54, and I was financially wiped out at 51. I will not ever recover from this. No family wealth to fall back on. I do not believe I will ever be able to retire. And noting that there is a bit of ageism in this space, makes the threat of potential long term unemployment even worse for folks like me.

Sort of an inverse Ozymandias. Gaze upon my flaming cratered company, and beware. Here be demons. That you cannot control.

I had skin in the game. And I lost it.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by Lordarminius on Thursday July 23, 2020 @03:56AM (#23925163)
> ...I'm 54, and I was financially wiped out at 51. I will not ever recover from this....

You need a fighting spirit to achieve great things. Many people have overcome far greater problems. Never give up you are only one transaction away from financial success. Good luck

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @11:01AM (#23976499)
(really not sure why this was down voted ... it is a good comment)

Thanks. I'm aware of others struggles. I figure that my story could be a cautionary tale for some, and others may take lessons from it.

When I say in other fora, never, ever take debt financing of anything if you can avoid it, this is coming from personal agonizing experience.

If I go back into the startup world, I'm going with a very clear perception of what is what. No rose colored glasses. No "if you build a better mousetrap" mentality. I know how things can go horribly wrong. I know where the traps and mines are.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by jngreenlee on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @04:21PM (#23921156)
Have you blogged or told your story anywhere? I'm curious to learn more!
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @04:42PM (#23921343)
Not all of it. I blog here[1]. The post where I talked about the end is here[2]. Note the 'laws' I quote at the end of the post. My first post is here[3]. There I talk about the HPC market, accelerators, and some of our plans. We were working on board level inexpensive accelerators before these were a thing. We gave up trying to get funding for this in 2006.

I did say, you have to be at the right place, at the right time. And be lucky. We got 2 of 3. Luck eluded us.

[1] https://scalability.org

[2] https://scalability.org/2017/03/requiem/

[3] https://scalability.org/2005/10/venture-capital-and-high-per...

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by magicalhippo on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @08:00PM (#23922848)
> Or when you go visit customers, they love your product, the benchmark results are mind blowing … and then the CIO/CFO kills the deal because, you know … you are too small.

We've been in similar situations several times. We're serving a niche, but this niche is a core piece of our customers business. Without software like ours, their whole operation stops.

Anyway, we'd have demos. Department heads were on fire, wondering if we could install same day we had demo, all smiles, everything looked great. And then we lost because someone higher up decided we were "too small". We're small, but we're pretty much the best in our niche and we have had very solid financials for decades.

Those we lost went with bigger, supposedly "safer" competitors and had some very sub-par years with them before they had to pay their way out of those contracts and come back to us.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @10:51AM (#23976396)
We had a customer that POCed on our systems, then bought some crap from HP + one of the SSD card vendors in 2013. They then called us up in 2014 and asked to pay us to help them achieve the performance they saw on our system, on their 5x as expensive "low risk" HP + SSD card system.

My response was simple. No.

I invited them to throw away the crap they bought and buy the right thing from us, but that was politically untenable. Turns out spending multiple millions of dollars for crappy half baked "solutions" versus a lower sum of money for something that actually worked, would likely get some people fired.

The world isn't fair, and sometimes not even sane. The people who made these decisions, despite being disastrous ones, were promoted. Enough of these built up that we couldn't survive.

Incredibly frustrating.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by infinite8s on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @05:04PM (#23921566)
Oh man, I remember reading your blog when I was in grad school (mid-2000s) doing molecular simulations on HPC systems (and not really enjoying the science aspect, but I did like working on the tools), thinking that you were a great example of being able to bootstrap a business in the HPC space. Sad to hear it didn't work out.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by hpcjoe on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @09:09PM (#23923219)
Thanks! I've gone to visit sites and heard a few people whispering near me "its the scalability.org guy". Blew me away.

I still write, albeit less frequently, and I have to keep to a narrower range of topics.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by redisman on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @03:12PM (#23920499)
If you're actually poor you can't even get a credit card. Because of a lack of credit history the only card I could get at one point was a $300 credit card where I had to send in $300 as a deposit to the bank. Let me just pay a couple of employees a somewhat livable wage on that...

I really hate this condescending "if you really wanted it the money shouldn't matter" coming from millionaires.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by adventured on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @02:49PM (#23920290)
> When poorer folk take the "same" risk, they can be ruined for decades.

In the vast majority of circumstances that's an extreme exaggeration.

Speaking from past personal experience with poverty (ie being "poorer folk"), you can default on every possible type of debt - wait about seven years (can vary slightly by state, but it's typically around that), and you're free from it. My credit rating went from 800, to 480, back to 760 in that process over eight years, without requiring any special effort. I defaulted on numerous credit cards, I defaulted on medical debt; it all vanished, one after another as time ticked by, and my credit rating jumped as each item fell off. Every negative mark falls off your credit report after N years.

It's very unpleasant to have your credit rating wrecked for years. To say that it will ruin you for decades, that's reaching into the land of absurdity. I'm sure it happens, some people get stuck in a vicious cycle for ... decades, however it's not rocket science to properly utilize the negative mark credit cycling to your advantage and reboot. It doesn't take more than an hour or two of reading to self-educate at zero cost about how the system works.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by jjeaff on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @01:38PM (#23919502)
It's also a privilege to even have a significant amount of unsecured credit available to you in the first place.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by santoshalper on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @01:50PM (#23919656)
At least in the United States, we have a bankruptcy system that blunts the worst outcomes somewhat. Not sure that applies everywhere.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by sealthedeal on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @03:29PM (#23920656)
True statements, fact of the matter is, this is not a fair world in which we live in. We are all created equal, but it doesn't mean that we are all given the same privilege.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by mgkimsal on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @12:45PM (#23918869)
> People who take that risk and don't make it aren't heard from

when you do, it's often quite heartbreaking. have read a few online, and knew one personally - kept going in to further debt, ended up getting divorced and creating a huge rift in his family, etc.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by CerealFounder on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @01:00PM (#23919051)
It's all just legacy from the insane power dynamic that comes from a relatively broke entrepreneur and an investor with money. The only thing that seems to stem true about the myth about "founders should be paid too much" is that when you suddenly have more resources than you ever had, you tend to be exposed to new distractions.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by jedberg on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @01:15PM (#23919249)
> Reddit would have been one of the most successful YC companies of all time, except for that they basically had to shut down because they couldn't raise money.

I can't give details, but I can tell you that the $80K would not have made a difference. What would have made a difference was a small seed of a few million, which YC is pretty good at getting for companies these days.

Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by Alex3917 on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @02:41PM (#23920195)
Yeah I mean in that specific example, it only works if you assume that Reddit would have had an extra few months to get more traction before raising the one round that they raised.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by swyx on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @01:05PM (#23919126)
i had thought myself reasonably well informed on the Reddit story but this is surprising. you're saying if they had their 7% of the ~1-2b it wouldve paid for every YC startup since? but its not liquid...
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by koolba on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @01:38PM (#23919493)
It’s also, AFAIK, never turned a profit. So unless they sold their stake to someone willing to gamble further, they wouldn’t have anything to show for the increased investment.
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by nine_k on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @10:45PM (#23923694)
Did Reddit have a monetization model? A working one?
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by ponker on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @03:24PM (#23920603)
How did the founders get so rich if they sold for pennies on the dollar to Conde Nast?
Re:Y Combinator has lost its soul: A YC founder's perspective by count on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @05:28PM (#23921814)
Because they sold it for a Lot of Pennies.