News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by throwaway894345 on Saturday July 18, 2020 @01:23PM (#23882964)
The thing that strikes me as especially interesting about our drive for diversity is that it’s based on the premise that if you hire people who look different, then you will very likely get people with heterogeneous viewpoints, which will make an organization stronger. I think this absolutely makes sense provided you sample evenly from all races, genders, etc; however, what I suspect is happening is that organizations that sort of worship diversity end up selecting from each race, gender, etc only those people who are similarly obsessive about diversity, and this selection bias erodes much of the purported benefit of diversity.

Notably, institutions like academia and media increasingly consider viewpoint homogeneity something akin to moral purity, and consequently they end up with lots of racial and gender diversity but minimal viewpoint diversity (of course the degree of homogeneity is not uniform across these institutions, but this doesn’t detract from my point).

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by manigandham on Saturday July 18, 2020 @05:45PM (#23885113)
Diversity is originally about diversity of thought, experience and knowledge. Things that actually affected the way a problem was approached and how innovations occur.

Since then it's been perverted into being about superficial immutable physical characteristics like sex and skin color, which is now, ironically, contributing to more racial discrimination and less meritocracy than before. It's a clear example of the "road to hell being paved with good intentions".

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by sky_rw on Saturday July 18, 2020 @08:04PM (#23885862)
The modern zeitgeist appears to disregard individualism in exchange for group identity. Thus by having diversity of group identities you are supposedly getting diversity of thought. Each group bringing their own backgrounds and experiences, with all members within a group adhering to the narrative of said group. I find the whole thing exceedingly racist but even that term has been redefined so here we are.

By focusing on diversity like this you are elevating these immutable characteristics beyond the importance of individuality, pre-judging what people will bring to a team based on things like skin color or gender. It seems like racism has just gone full circle. I'm sure I will get downvoted to hell as this is a very unpopular take.

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by goblin89 on Sunday July 19, 2020 @02:26AM (#23887426)
I think a lot of measures are taken out of concern for optics and without consideration as to whether they are addressing the underlying causes or merely the symptoms.

First there’s the pressure of “we have to do something now and it has to be externally apparent”, the choice to go with the most outwardly visible change, then other organizations following suit, and soon it becomes mandatory with everyone convinced they are working on resolving the underlying problem.

However, even if the underlying causes behind socio-psychological dynamics that fuel discrimination and xenophobia are unlikely to be best addressed through eliminating the symptoms of it by enforcing diversity via the very mechanism of discrimination by external in-born traits, that action may still help address some adjacent core problems (for example, somewhat reducing the income gap correlating with certain such traits).

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by op03 on Sunday July 19, 2020 @03:30AM (#23887660)
Going from understanding the symptoms of cancer to the causes of cancer and then controlling it takes TIME.

In the mean time what do you think happens?

Lot of blundering about. If you focus too much on the blundering most cancer hospitals will get shut down.

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by goblin89 on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @02:45AM (#23914545)
Suppressing symptoms doesn’t necessarily lead to understanding the root causes, and in fact may do the opposite as relieved symptoms leave the impression of successful treatment.

Of course, to reiterate, in this case the ‘treatment’ is likely addressing the root causes of adjacent problems, and in dire circumstances even a temporary relief could be worth it, so I would not call against it.

My worry is that as one particular way of addressing discrimination (through applying discrimination, no less) becomes the default, it’s cargo-culted and there is very little incentive to understand and fix the underlying issues that said discrimination is a symptom of—which (underlying issues) may well fester until they manifest themselves as a new, possibly worse symptom.

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by dragonwriter on Saturday July 18, 2020 @06:16PM (#23885313)
> The thing that strikes me as especially interesting about our drive for diversity is that it’s based on the premise that if you hire people who look different, then you will very likely get people with heterogeneous viewpoints

No, it's not. It's about social justice and corporate citizenship. Viewpoint heterogenity and other arguments of private benefit have always been secondary arguments.

> Notably, institutions like academia and media increasingly consider viewpoint homogeneity something akin to moral purity

AFAICT this isn't increasingly true of either, though it's perhaps slightly increasingly true (with different favored viewpoints) within individual media firms rather than the media as a whole. The argument that it is increasingly true tends to come from supporters of what was, until recently, the dominant ideology in those institutions and all of society, and is more about that viewpoint no longer being as strongly favored than increasing homogeneity.

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by alicemaz on Saturday July 18, 2020 @08:10PM (#23885898)
>It's about social justice and corporate citizenship. Viewpoint heterogenity and other arguments of private benefit have always been secondary arguments.

it's more akin to a sales tactic

compare the shift in preeminence from "free software" to "open source." the pioneers make a moral/ideological argument why doing such-and-such thing is an imperative, get visibility and carve out a niche, but don't achieve mass adoption. bit later, the strivers show up and argue such-and-such actually just makes good business sense, and this proves interesting and palatable enough to get fully institutionalized

or, say, the shift from "gay liberation" to "gay rights." the argument in the 60s and 70s was that we're inherently subversive entities whose lifestyles by their very nature go against the status quo. by the 00s the dominant line is if only we had these and those legal rights, the final obstacles to our complete willing assimilation into the status quo!

as "diversity" continues its transition from ideal championed by believers to administrative function served by a professional class, it will continue to mutate in a way that benefits those who implement it

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by throwaway894345 on Saturday July 18, 2020 @06:48PM (#23885488)
It seems like we have different perceptions on all counts, especially that this observation is just from certain supporters of a particular ideology. Interestingly, in my view, this is the one thing that liberals and conservatives can actually agree on.
Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by dehrmann on Saturday July 18, 2020 @03:25PM (#23884061)
> if you hire people who look different, then you will very likely get people with heterogeneous viewpoints, which will make an organization stronger

I know studies have shown this at the organizational level, but has there been much work teasing apart cause and effect? You can make a case that organizations welcoming of different viewpoints outperform for that reason, and they attract and retain diverse people for the same reason.

Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by throwaway894345 on Saturday July 18, 2020 @03:35PM (#23884148)
I’m not sure, but would be very interested to find out.
[dead]
[dead]
Re:How Mormons built a startup ecosystem in Utah by throwaway894345 on Saturday July 18, 2020 @02:04PM (#23883351)
I don't agree with the parent's tone, but I don't think the parent was claiming that "racism and sexism" were equivalent to "intellectual diversity"; I'm not sure how you got there. I also don't think it's very interesting or relevant to speculate about the parent's motives for their observation, especially to use pejorative language like "ax to grind".