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Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by Silhouette on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:02PM (#23874162)
But they build very good privacy and security into their products. And they structure their UI and defaults in such a way that the average user benefits with no effort or specialized knowledge.

Sometimes they do, and I agree that they're much better than a lot of big tech companies.

Still, their insistence on tying almost everything to iCloud and then not encrypting iCloud properly is a major black mark against them, which severely reduces the usefulness of their devices and associated services if you value privacy and security.

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by lilyball on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:09PM (#23874232)
On the other hand, tying everything to iCloud and then losing all your data because you replaced your sole device and forgot your password would be disastrous. This is the scenario that requires Apple to retain the keys to your iCloud, and as long as they have those keys, they can be compelled to decrypt it under lawful government order.
Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by Silhouette on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:50PM (#23874711)
The thing is, once data is in iCloud, there are other ways you can retrieve it and back it up yourself as long as you do have working authentication, and I can see no good argument for not offering E2E encryption across the board that is tied to such identification.

Worst case, you generate a suitably robust key that is used for authentication and encryption, and you provide a means to export it and back it up however you want without sending it to any third party. You can still use all the snazzy secure enclaves and facial recognition and so on to protect a copy of that key that is held on each of your personal devices to enable easy but reasonably secure access, but the underlying technology is tried and tested, it does not have the lock-in problem, and it does not require data in iCloud to be accessible to anyone but the keyholder.

Also note that this needn't necessarily be mandatory. If users are OK with trusting Apple, they could still use the current approach. But if you're going to claim to be a strong supporter of privacy and security, you should really have at least the option for proper encryption of everything for those people and businesses that want it.

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by lifeisstillgood on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:52PM (#23875407)
These days I have enough other apple devices tied in (family settings etc) that i could lose one device and still be authenticated via another

I think the secure enclave is the winning technology - whilst not everyone has to have a smartphone in the brave new digital world,everyone will have to have at least one secure enclave (HSM probably tied to biometrics)

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by deeblering4 on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:01PM (#23874839)
Yes, although this is hardly unique to Apple. Play mad-libs with this statement and it applies to the vast majority of cloud solutions.

___ have your ____, and as long as they have those ____, they can be compelled to ____ it under lawful government order.

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by lilyball on Friday July 17, 2020 @08:55PM (#23877916)
That's true, and most cloud solutions also do the same thing as Apple and retain the keys necessary to regain access to the account.
Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by tjoff on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:32PM (#23874501)
How do you prove that it is your account then?
Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by lh7777 on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:19PM (#23874357)
This is frustrating, but it doesn't bother me too much on the iPhone -- I can just not use iCloud and periodically back up my phone locally. I don't really need to sync anything but photos because I don't create or edit documents on my phone.

On the other hand, the iPad is a very capable device for content creation, but I couldn't find a reliable way to sync files that doesn't leave them readable to Apple or another party. That'd probably be OK if I could use an iPad as my only computer, but I can't (or won't) today.

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by Silhouette on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:45PM (#23874665)
I don't really need to sync anything but photos because I don't create or edit documents on my phone.

This is one of the key points. You can plug an iPhone into almost any modern PC, Apple or otherwise, and download the photos and videos. But you can't do the same for other types of data without using one or more of an Apple computer, specialist software or iCloud. The middle option, which is the only one not entirely controlled by Apple itself, has a long history of attempts that proved not to work entirely reliably or last for long. And as you say, for an iPad, where perhaps more users want to do substantial creative work, the same issues apply.

I understand that Apple's current business model is heavily tied to locking customers into its ecosystem, but that does become a significant problem for people who just want a nice phone but also respect for their privacy, and I do think Apple should be called out for this just as I think it's fair to praise them for being much better on broader privacy issues than most of their competitors.

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by throwaway5792 on Friday July 17, 2020 @07:59PM (#23877506)
What do you mean other types of data?
Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by Silhouette on Friday July 17, 2020 @08:18PM (#23877658)
Almost anything else. iOS devices use the same protocols as things like DSLR cameras to allow plug-and-play access to download photos and videos (unless, ironically, you have iTunes software installed and it gets in the way). However, there is no equivalent to let you browse and locally download messages, notes, creative work, or any other type of data you might have on your phone with using one of the channels I mentioned before.
Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by ReverseCold on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:47PM (#23874684)
> I can just not use iCloud

Many third party apps that have a sync feature only work with iCloud, so a lot of people are forced to use it.

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by runako on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:18PM (#23875024)
> a reliable way to sync files that doesn't leave them readable to Apple or another party

It's worth noting that nothing in iOS or iCloud prevents apps from encrypting data using a separate user key and then storing in iCloud. (Essentially, using iCloud only as a reliable substrate for syncing files it cannot read.)

That popular apps do not do this is likely due to lack of demand as much as anything. I am sure there are some content creation apps that do provide this functionality, if one is willing to search hard enough.

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by mark_l_watson on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:14PM (#23874981)
You can set your own password on documents created with the iWorks apps, on PDFs, etc., not perfect, but at least that is something.
Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by theferalrobot on Friday July 17, 2020 @05:24PM (#23875799)
Most app backups in icloud are end to end encrypted. If you choose to backup your entire device in icloud (rather than automatically on your local mac) that backup is not end to end encrypted.

I agree it should be but that doesn’t seem like a huge deal especially considering the alternative platform (android) doesn’t even have a comprehensive backup solution (only individual apps via gdrive etc).

Re:New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads by Silhouette on Friday July 17, 2020 @08:06PM (#23877559)
I agree it should be but that doesn’t seem like a huge deal

I respectfully disagree. Encouraging people to upload data that will probably be very personal in some cases, such as photos, videos or messages they store on their phone, without proper safeguards is at best negligent and/or abusive depending on your point of view. The fact that the other major mobile platform is even worse doesn't make the former situation any better.