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Re:Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in Fr... by jjoonathan on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @04:44PM (#23851457)
Nuclear safety and waste are among the most serious of issues, but it is disturbingly common and dishonest to present them without comparison to the safety and waste problems of the alternatives and without optimizing for safety per kilowatt.

Coal particulates, acidic gasses, and CO2 are awful. Natural gas CO2 is awful. I hardly need to elaborate, yet this is the alternative we chose.

It's not just coal that has problems, though: hydroelectric power has an appalling history of accidents leading to enormous death and destruction, yet it maintains a sterling reputation in environmental groups, at least compared to nuclear. Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure (sort by fatalities, look for Banqiao Dam at 170000)

Wind and solar installations illustrate why it's important to count per unit of energy produced. They commit the "sin" of low density. With wind, you construct a gigantic edifice of concrete, steel, and fiberglass, likely in a remote location or even out at sea, and at the end of the day you can power a couple neighborhoods, some of the time. In a nuclear power plant, you construct a gigantic edifice of concrete and steel and you can power a couple of cities, all of the time. You have a handful of experts in a concrete bunker, compared to, say, residential solar with an army of contractors running around every roof in a city every few years. Slips and falls won't get a HBO miniseries, but they ruin lives just the same.

At scale, it all must be accounted for. It has been, but the results don't line up with public perception and as a consequence we collectively made a terrible mistake.

https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

Re:Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in Fr... by Klinky on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @04:49PM (#23851554)
No it's not dishonest. Where are the storage facilities? Is Hanford a disaster or not? Were there fundamental quality and safety issues in the 70s(and before) around nuclear facilities?

Pointing out that other stuff is "just as bad as nuclear" is not helping the argument for nuclear.

Re:Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in Fr... by jjoonathan on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @04:58PM (#23851709)
> Where are the storage facilities?

Yucca Mountain was bulldozed by the anti-nuclear faction. Hooray?

> Is Hanford a disaster or not?

Unquestionably.

> Pointing out that other stuff is "just as bad as nuclear" is not helping the argument for nuclear.

That's generally how decision-making works: you weigh the tradeoffs and make the best choice.

Well, that's how it's supposed to work, I suppose. If you refuse, well, nature just punishes you accordingly. In this case, we get an atmosphere full of CO2. Hooray?

Re:Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in Fr... by DuskStar on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @09:01PM (#23854508)
> > Is Hanford a disaster or not?

> Unquestionably.

Hanford is a disaster... But just Hanford. Upstream and downstream are both fine. It's a few dozen square miles of contamination that affects people more than it does nature. (Look at the Chernobyl exclusion zone)

Compare to something like ocean acidification, caused by burning coal and oil, which is killing all the coral reefs, worldwide.

Re:Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in Fr... by Klinky on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @10:58PM (#23855252)
Hanford is just $6 - $10 billion per year, with cost estimates up to $667 billion total over its "lifespan", but we know some of the nuclear waste will be with us for thousands of years, so this number will only get bigger. There is no end in sight.

WIPP also had a leak issue with cost estimates of up to $1.4 billion to fix.

There are also dozens of sites orphaned and essentially the problem for the DOE to figure out. The cost of nuclear waste has been heavily socialized. The problem won't be going away anytime soon.

Re:Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in Fr... by merb on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @05:44PM (#23852398)
Yucca Mountain was controverse at best. you know a storage facility needs to withstands over thousands years. It's basically impossible to plan for that with our limited living years.
Re:Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in Fr... by dylan604 on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @06:24PM (#23853022)
>That's generally how decision-making works: you weigh the tradeoffs and make the best choice.

You weigh the tradeoffs and make the least bad choice. We've decided as a society that we cannot live without electricity. No method of generating that electricity is without negative implications. (yet?)