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Re:Ubuntu Will No Longer Track Which Packages Users Install by Analemma_ on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @11:44AM (#23846878)
> How do people building these things become convinced this is ok?

Because they have the data proving that opt-in telemetry means no telemetry. Every time this topic comes up, HN sticks its fingers in its ears and refuses to accept this, but it's the truth. 99% of users, even for a developer-focused application like VSCode, just click through and accept the defaults. So if you want telemetry that isn't useless for any practical purposes, it has to be opt-out.

If you want, you can have a separate argument about whether having the telemetry is worth it, but if you've had that discussion and decided the answer is yes, then opt-out follows immediately from that.

Re:Ubuntu Will No Longer Track Which Packages Users Install by jkaplowitz on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @12:17PM (#23847395)
I've heard the same data as you. But I haven't heard data on what happens if you force people to make a choice about the telemetry upon install, without offering a default.

Like, instead of having a prechecked box that people would have to notice and uncheck before proceeding or a greyed out "maybe later" button, what about two different continue buttons labeled "yes, help us improve with anonymous statistics" or "no, I'd rather not contribute"? (Either way with a link available to more details in the privacy policy before deciding.)

My guess is that it would be less useful telemetry than opt-in, more useful than opt-out, and a slight obstacle to sign-ups for consumer webapps but not much of an obstacle to enterprise webapps or anything pre-downloaded.

Maybe it's still useful and smooth enough to be the right balance vs privacy?

Re:Ubuntu Will No Longer Track Which Packages Users Install by GekkePrutser on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @11:50AM (#23846987)
Just because a supplier wants to have telemetry doesn't suddenly make it ethical to do opt-out (or even forced like MS does with Windows 10!).

If they care about their users and it's not possible to have worthwhile telemetry with opt-in, they simply can't have it.

Re:Ubuntu Will No Longer Track Which Packages Users Install by Analemma_ on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @11:58AM (#23847100)
That's a strange definition of "can't". VSCode can and does, and it's the most popular editor in the world [0].

[0]: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#development-e...

Re:Ubuntu Will No Longer Track Which Packages Users Install by nitrogen on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @12:25PM (#23847512)
It's the same definition that says you "can't" steal your coworkers' lunch as they are eating it.
Re:Ubuntu Will No Longer Track Which Packages Users Install by on9wim5R on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @11:54AM (#23847044)
Indeed, I wouldn't try to find a case for "good telemetry", it basically means snooping, as far as I'm concerned.

And this is not even something that can't be replaced : if you want to know about your users habits, ask them. I would have no problem with seeing once in a while a broadcast message after syncing packages showing me an url of a poll. But automatic data collection is never ok.