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A comment on Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to algorithmic pay model.

Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by irl_zebra on Sunday July 12, 2020 @05:11PM (#23814802)
“ For years, Shipt has used a clear commissioned-based pay model that ($5 plus a 7.5 percent commission on all orders),...”

Outside the context of algorithmic pay models, I’ve always had a lingering doubt in the context of the restaurant industry. I typically tip 20% across the board, more for great service. If I order a $120 bottle of wine versus a $20 bottle of wine, the wait staff is getting an extra $20, but what did they do to get this extra $20? Everything else is the same. (Putting aside the situations where you order a very nice multi-thousand dollar bottle and a special person with wine knowledge comes out and handles everything, etc.)

Analogizing now to Shipts situation, should one person get paid more because I got the fancy cheese rather than the store brand? They’re next to one another and everything else remains the same. I’m not surprised pay drops substantially when algorithmic pay only considers effort.

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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by Wowfunhappy on Sunday July 12, 2020 @06:00PM (#23815128)
Tips make no sense ecomically, at least not the way we use them. Restaurants don't pay their waiters enough, so customers are effectively obligated to tip X% on top of the price.

What should happen is restaurants should pay their workers a living wage and charge customers accordingly, so there's none of this stupid guilt trip stuff.

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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by rayiner on Sunday July 12, 2020 @06:28PM (#23815296)
They do have an economic explanation that makes sense. They’re a form of price discrimination, where some people pay more for a product that is potentially only marginally different. For example, the steep price increase for various storage sizes of iPhones. Price discrimination can be a good thing. In the case of iPhones, it allows Apple to put out a base model at a lower price than it would to make the same profit without price discrimination. In the restaurant industry, it is probably good for both consumers and wait staff. Tipping culture allows restaurants to keep the base price of a meal lower, and allows wealthier customers to tip heavily. At nicer restaurants, it’s not uncommon for wait staff to make a healthy amount in tips.
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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by Wowfunhappy on Sunday July 12, 2020 @07:39PM (#23815672)
It's a very weird form of price discrimination though, because the service you receive doesn't change depending on how much you tip.

The economic choice for the customer is, how much do they value their money versus not being an asshole...

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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by rayiner on Sunday July 12, 2020 @08:17PM (#23815868)
Pay what you want can be seen as a form of price discrimination: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22148....
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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by tptacek on Monday July 13, 2020 @07:31PM (#23826871)
That's the point: the offering changes are marginal (you get some extra storage space on your phone; you get PX status at the restaurant) but wealthy patrons will behave differently than price-sensitive patrons, and you want to extract the maximum value from both market segments.
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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by jahaja on Sunday July 12, 2020 @06:45PM (#23815386)
Do you think that given the choice, workers would prefer tips and an unlivable wage, above a livable wage and no tips?
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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by rayiner on Sunday July 12, 2020 @07:17PM (#23815560)
Many servers have opposed efforts to replace tips with a “living wage” (because servers and bartenders can make $20-30/hour with tips). Back of house staff tend to lose out from that system, so they tend to favor eliminating tips.
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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by jahaja on Sunday July 12, 2020 @07:31PM (#23815632)
And you think this hold true for the average worker, rather than the pretty obvious exceptions that make $20-30/hour?
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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by JamesBarney on Monday July 13, 2020 @12:11PM (#23822340)
Every friend I have who is a waiter or bartender make over 15 per hour and many around 30.

When I asked if they'd prefer wages even if they made the same per hour, every single one said they prefer tips.

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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @12:05PM (#23833566)
I don't know if it's true, but I recall reading somewhere that working class people tend to tip Uber drivers more, because "they know what it's like" to have that kind of job.

If so, that's a really twisted form of price discrimination.

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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by lallysingh on Sunday July 12, 2020 @05:17PM (#23814839)
For the wine situation, I think your standards for service would be higher at places you pay $120 for a bottle than $20.
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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by akiselev on Sunday July 12, 2020 @05:39PM (#23814991)
Maybe for a $1200 bottle, but not a $120 bottle. Even my local BBQ spot has a $200 bottle and there it's self service except for drink and food orders. I'd say most of my frequent spots ($20-30 for most expensive entree) have at least one bottle in the three figure price range.

However, tipping 20% on a $120 bottle would be more than half of what I tipped the last time I went to a fancy place where the staff folded the napkins every time someone got up to go to the bathroom. That was a 40% tip on a $100 meal for two (with corkage fee) where I felt the service was excellent and included far more than just pouring a few glasses.

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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by lallysingh on Sunday July 12, 2020 @07:21PM (#23815571)
Those sound like exceptions more than general trends. The tip algorithm makes more sense for the general trend, and less so for the exceptions. That's a reasonable situation.
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Re:Target’s gig workers will strike to protest switch to alg... by irl_zebra on Sunday July 12, 2020 @05:45PM (#23815027)
The other poster answered this I think pretty succinctly. But I’m sure you could get a $100+ bottle of wine at pick-your-random-chain-restaurant similar to Chili’s or whatever is in that range, where there is certainly zero company-mandated difference in service regardless of what one orders.
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