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Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by mytailorisrich on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:35AM (#23789701)
In most countries pornography is restricted to people over 18 by law.

This was not too difficult to enforce when access was mostly in person, but it has become difficult now that access is mostly online.

If society agrees that young people below a certain age should not have access to pornography then it is reasonable, even necessary, to try to implement ways to enforce that restriction online.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by randomchars on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:45AM (#23789737)
Alcohol and cigarettes are restricted to people above 18/21 in most places. Yet somehow I see 14-15 year olds drinking and smoking (even weed, which is illegal).

I think I first saw a porn magazine before I was 10.

Where there's a will, there's a way. You can't use technology for this, because there will always be a will, so they'll ALWAYS find a way.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by nocitrek on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:57AM (#23789802)
The point is that proportion of young adults that will access to porn will change from 100% to ~25%. Of course people will find a way, but the question is how much effort will they put in before they give up. If the effort barrier is too high, you will cull off some people - the purpose of this legislation.
Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by randomchars on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:03AM (#23789837)
Why would it change? It's not like officially not being able buy alcohol stops anyone who wants to drink from drinking. We can pretend that this is the biggest danger that people under 18 face, but let's be real, much worse things can happen to them, than watching porn.

This shouldn't be solved at the government level, but at the family level. By parents talking to kids.

Also, unless they implement something like the PRC's firewall, it will a 100% be an inept solution that's easy to get around.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by nocitrek on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:39AM (#23790067)
I think many men today have their brains altered from watching too much excessive porn. Fetishes develop and normal healthy relationships become problematic due to performance issues. There are many worse thing than porn, yes, but to be healthy well rounded adult, it does not help (at least excessive). Family can help, but some topics are taboo in many families, especially when man ego is in question. If you could not statisfy your wife, would you speak with your mother for help?

Yes, you can say it should start from young age, but both parents are at work and kids are left with high-speed internet and tablets. They react positively to porn and can get addicted - its a single click away. Hard to prevent that, eh.

I think we will witness the true effect of porn on males mind in future.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by randomchars on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:53AM (#23790160)
I generally agree with you about the effects of porn, especially on children, it definitely had an effect on me.

But, this kind of age verification bullshit will not help anyone. The politicians will be able to say they did something, and the parents will feel that they don't have to worry about this, making their children even more vulnerable.

I think porn addiction, and its effects are a societal issue, that can not be solved by legislation, only by making it a non-taboo topic, and talking about inside the family.

Edit, ps: your replies are marked as dead for some reason when you make them, and I had to vouch for it before being able to reply.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by catalogia on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:18PM (#23793829)
I share your concerns. However I have a hard time believing that politicians who claim to also share these concerns are being sincere.
Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by ryandrake on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:10PM (#23796485)
If it were 100% -> 25% I could see the value/justification. Even if it were 100% -> 90% there's value there. But these restrictions will not have any impact whatsoever. Anyone who wants access will have it regardless of age verification measures.

I remember when cigarette vending machines were banned. I'm sure it had 0.000000 (repeating of course) percent effect on the availability of cigarettes to kids who were motivated to get them. Same with alcohol regulations. Same with weed. Anyone with even an ounce of motivation can and will bypass.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by mytailorisrich on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:37AM (#23790051)
Your reply is a strawman.

I wrote that if there is a legal restriction on pornography (or cigarettes, or alcohol, or whatever) then it is reasonable to make efforts to enforce that restriction.

There is no enforcement that is 100% effective and some people always find a way to break the law. That's another issue and arguing on this is a strawman argument to my point.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by alpaca128 on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:53AM (#23789777)
It is absolutely impossible to enforce. The internet certainly makes it easier for kids, but such age barriers are only a minor inconvenience really.

Officially 18+ video games and movies can also be only accessed by adults, yet in my school a 13 years old kid literally ran a black market for horror movies and games like Call of Duty. It won't be any different for porn even if the government goes as far with blocking as the CCP.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by ByteJockey on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:28AM (#23790407)
> If society agrees that young people below a certain age should not have access to pornography then it is reasonable, even necessary, to try to implement ways to enforce that restriction online.

I think you're skipping a step here. It was reasonable when everyone involved was in the same jurisdiction and bound by the same laws.

Now that's just fundamentally not true. The question is, is this feasible today? If it is not feasible, I have a hard time calling it reasonable.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by mytailorisrich on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:50AM (#23790556)
I am not skipping a step. On the contrary I start from the start: Society does not want that young people access pornography.

This is the starting point and everyone seems to ignore it and to immediately jump to strawman arguments about the feasibility of absolute enforceability.

If the starting point holds, then it is reasonable to try to enforce that restriction.

Only then does the issue of the feasibility become relevant.

Enforcement is always a balance between cost and benefit and is never 100% effective for anything. This is not an argument.

It is feasible to implement effective measures to enforce age restrictions online. The degree of effectiveness depends on how far we're willing to go. I think at the moment the aim is to discourage a significant enough portion of the people, knowing full well that the most motivated will find a way around it.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by ByteJockey on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:59PM (#23797035)
> is the starting point and everyone seems to ignore it and to immediately jump to strawman arguments about the feasibility of absolute enforceability.

That does seem like the natural progression (save for the strawman part).

Have desire to do something -> evaluate feasibility -> if it's feasible do it.

Perhaps that's not as standard of a flow as I originally thought. That would actually explain a number of laws on the books now that I think about it.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by mytailorisrich on Saturday July 11, 2020 @05:55AM (#23800839)
Note the word 'absolute'.

The 'argument' seems to be that there is not point enforcing the law because it is not feasible to enforce it absolutely.

This logic is obviously fallacious as is reducing enforcement to absolute enforcement.

I also find it disappointing that I was flagged for pointing this out. Strawman arguments are very common. Sometimes they are not used consciously but it is useful to call a cat a cat.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by ByteJockey on Saturday July 11, 2020 @02:57PM (#23804731)
> The 'argument' seems to be that there is not point enforcing the law because it is not feasible to enforce it absolutely.

My argument was more that it is stupid and undermines the credibility of the government to pass laws that it cannot enforce. It's that they were passed in the first place that bothers me personally. I'm not holding anything against someone whose job it it to enforce the law having to enforce a stupid law.

We already saw this with the pirate bay, you can't block information. In fact, the harder you try, the funnier it is for people to find ways around it.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by cat199 on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:33AM (#23792543)
There's also the question of profit -

currently, people of all ages can easily access commercial pornography which then profits from the activity (either through advertising revenue or overt sales).

So in effect, due to not requiring and not enforcing age restrictions, pornographers are profiting from distributing pornography to minors, which is a crime and should be a crime.

Even if this fails to block access by minors, it will certainly to a much larger extent block the ability of pornographers to profit from illegally distributing adult content to them, and with that, the potential incentive to market to them and the attendant cultural knock-on effects this situation creates.

Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by falsaberN1 on Friday July 10, 2020 @03:10PM (#23795137)
The way you word this is kind of problematic. I very much doubt the guys at pornhub are slouching on their throne of evil, drinking from a chalice of deceit, while scheming how to reach all the kids for increased profit.
Re:France to introduce controversial age verification system... by Waterfall on Saturday July 11, 2020 @02:03PM (#23804216)
In China porn is illegal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_in_China Its freely available.