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Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by coreai on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:16PM (#23771923)
The decision of ICE essentially was to not change anything. A student on F1 is only permitted to take certain number of online classes and must maintain his status with in person classes. The change to online classes means this affects ones status and the ICE notice meant they will not make any changes to these rules even in this situation. What people are saying is that this affects ones work status if he leaves the US post study but ideally a student is a student not seeking work or immigration into the US especially given that the H1B is suspended and OPT is not work it’s training. If the university says class is online then it means there is no reason for a student to live in the US. People confuse students with long term immigration even if that maybe the intention of the student. They are just students who are paying tuition and living in the US as far as anyone is concerned.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by nicoburns on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:25PM (#23772018)
> People confuse students with long term immigration even if that maybe the intention of the student. They are just students who are paying tuition and living in the US as far as anyone is concerned.

Even if it's only short term for the duration of their studies, it seems quite unfair to expect students who have setup in the US to return back to their home country for a term or two when they might well then have to come back to the US again the following year.

Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by dathinab on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:43PM (#23772258)
Yes, especially if you consider that this students spend quite a considerable amount of money in the US.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by verdverm on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:57PM (#23772442)
My experience has been that the students who are there for highschool 2.0 spend the most and many foreign students need to find work to make ends meet. They are typically more motivated and focused than local students, spend less time going out (tho travel more) and far more on studies. This is also typical of continuing edu students.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by chenzhekl on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:25PM (#23772015)
That is irresponsible. For studying in the U.S., students have to rent an apartment, purchase necessities and do lots of other preparations. If they are not allowed to stay in the U.S. anymore, who would cover the loss for them?
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by ptd on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:33PM (#23772122)
Not if all the education is being delivered online.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by butterthebuddha on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:36PM (#23772168)
Things are not so cut and dry. Rent in the college town my university is located in is high and people have to sign year-long leases the year before they actually occupy the apartment due to high demand. Forcing students to travel home places unnecessary hardship on them if they've already signed an expensive lease.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by mtgp1000 on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @02:01PM (#23772500)
If they're non-citizens what does it matter to them if they break the lease?
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by fzeroracer on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @03:34PM (#23773428)
What about the citizens that this impacts? You know, the people offering up apartments for rent.

Would you like to lose money because the US Government decided to kick out students for no good reason?

Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by gammarator on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @02:05PM (#23772549)
They will lose their security deposit, at minimum.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by asutekku on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @02:04PM (#23772528)
Some people have this thing called morale.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by mola on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:53PM (#23772383)
Taking a decision to not change anything when everything has changed is not a passive act.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by foepys on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:21PM (#23771972)
Doesn't the US hope that those highly educated students stay in the US afterwards? I was always under impression that this was the main goal of those programs. Get the smartest from other countries, show them how good it is in your country, and hope for them stay and contribute to the economy.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by lutorm on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:30PM (#23772086)
Absolutely not. Maybe the US should, but according to the rules, a student visa is "nonimmigrant intent" and expressing the desire to stay in the US after your studies are over may in fact be grounds for denial of a visa because they may think you're going to overstay.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by smsm42 on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:34PM (#23772135)
F1 is a "non-immigration" visa - meaning that it is explicitly designed so that the students do not stay after finishing the studies. There are "dual intent" visas which are designed with the intent of possibly staying, such as H1B. But technically, expressing intent to stay can be a reason to be denied F1 visa.

> Get the smartest from other countries, show them how good it is in your country

That may be true, but that's not what F1 is made for, by design.

Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by verdverm on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @02:03PM (#23772517)
Many of these students pay the bills of the department as graduate only students, and for the students it's a jump point to the US job market. Both enjoy the benefits of a misaligned program.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by nothal on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:32PM (#23772101)
Depends on the administration, which is really a problem if you want to consistently attract talent. Seems like an opportunity for Trump to ostensibly change nothing while taking what looks like a hard-line on immigration.

There's an added benefit to Trump of punishing universities for their continued pushback against much of his goals (e.g. Title IX lawsuits, harboring undocumented people/not complying with ICE).

Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by taylodl on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:29PM (#23772064)
That used to be the case but I'm not so sure the current regime is down for that - at least they're not acting like it.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by linuxftw on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:48PM (#23772310)
> Doesn't the US hope that those highly educated students stay in the US afterwards?

I'd say the average American does not hope this, no. Foreign students are driving up the cost of tuition as they're usually quite wealthy and displace seats for underprivileged Americans, especially in state-run schools.

I don't know why someone would come to the US to study other than the hopes of immigrating. There are better schools in Europe and elsewhere that are much cheaper or even free.

On the off chance we actually face some sort of shortage of critical skills, there are other visas for that.

Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by hello_1234 on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:59PM (#23772475)
That's not true. Almost all state universities charge a much higher tuition fee to foreign and out-of-state students (sometimes two to three times higher). That higher fee is used to subsidize the fee of in-state students. Sorry to be crass, but please do some research before spewing your bullshit online.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by linuxftw on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @02:27PM (#23772792)
> That higher fee is used to subsidize the fee of in-state students

An uncited, flimsy excuse. Most universities could function just fine without out of state students, but that might result in a cutback of some of the wasteful spending these institutions create.

In any case, the seats are a finite quantity. Most public universities in the US have competitive admissions. Guess who's not getting admitted in place of students on visas? That's right, the most underprivileged parts of our society, which is why I said seats.

Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by Ar-Curunir on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:58PM (#23772463)
Even if "it's only classes", there are things called time zones; if you're in Europe or Asia then it would fucking suck to have to get up everyday in the middle of the night to take classes.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by evanb on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @02:04PM (#23772532)
This ignores the enormous logistical difficulties associated with, say, timezones. If my online classes are at 2 AM but the grocery store is only open from 9-5, I am going to be exhausted all semester.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by kevingadd on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:21PM (#23771970)
There was previously an exemption put in place, they're suspending it.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by DarkScholar on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:49PM (#23772319)
It is not this simple. Some international students are on a significant financial aid and rely on the resources provided to them in the U.S, be it college housing and dining or else...
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by gamblor956 on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:58PM (#23772464)
International students generally do not qualify for financial aid from US schools.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by verdverm on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @02:01PM (#23772499)
I don't believe they made claim about the aid coming from the school. More often it's family savings or their own country providing the assistance.
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by bytematic on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:33PM (#23772120)
What is the point of spending time and money to send these students home?
Re:MIT and Harvard file suit against new ICE regulations by shadowgovt on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:26PM (#23772035)
And that is the wrong decision at this time.