> Online videos and assignments at most top universities have been available for free for years now. Universities are entirely about the advantage of learning in person, peer groups and signalling.

If anyone seriously doubts this, consider that pretty much any young person in America can just walk into a university lecture hall, and sit through all the classes they could ever wish for, without paying a cent. [1] Nobody takes attendance, and if you look like a student, nobody's going to notice that you're not actually enrolled in the class.

And yet, nobody actually does this! Instead, millions of people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition, so that their attendance will be officially recorded.

Those people aren't stupid. They aren't paying for the education, they are paying for everything besides the education.

[1] Okay, it may cost you a few hundred dollars per year to buy second-hand, old-edition books, if you can't be arsed to study at the university library. This is much less of a financial hurdle than having the luxury to devote 20-40 hours/week on attending classes, and doing classwork.

> Universities are entirely about the advantage of learning in person, peer groups and signalling.

As long as "learning in person" includes one-on-one time with your professors and access to a university library I agree with you 100%.

> without paying a cent

It's pretty easy to get into hot water with the university if you have any legal ties to them (e.g. by having been a student). It's common to require some fraction of ordinary tuition to sit in on classes.

> Nobody takes attendance, and if you look like a student, nobody's going to notice that you're not actually enrolled in the class.

Enough people do take attendance, or at least take a look at the roster ahead of time (in smaller classes). I had a better success rate speaking with the professor ahead of time and asking if they minded. It's also worth mentioning that not all professors are willing to put in extra one-on-one time with an unofficial student.

> nobody actually does this

Admittedly the slip of paper at the end was important to me, but I saved a little money taking some of the classes I wanted unofficially, and I wasn't the only person in my university peer group to do so. It was also a nice way to sidestep some bureaucratic prerequisite issues for classes outside my major.

Many university libraries don't check ID at the door, and many paying students don't take advantage of 1:1 professor or TA office hours.

Yes, this sort of thing is discouraged - but my point is that anyone who wanted to learn what is being taught in CALC 405, or what-have-you can currently do so, under the table, for essentially free.

I totally agree that anyone who wants to learn the contents of most courses can do so for free, including the 1:1 interactions, networking, and library access (many universities not only don't check ID but actively encourage the broader community to visit and research).

My argument was a mild push-back, pointing out that it's more difficult in some respects (e.g., you might not have access to some of your preferred professors), and that it _does_ actually happen occasionally.

Do you have any insight into why more people don't take advantage of that opportunity? Anecdotally, before I attended university I didn't value a college education beyond the slip of paper at the end, and even if I had wanted just the education without the degree I wouldn't have known that I could just sit in on my classes.

> Do you have any insight into why more people don't take advantage of that opportunity?

Because they correctly value the learning to be worth ~$X,000, but the accreditation to be worth ~$YZ,000.

When you put things that way, the 20-40 hours/week of time that goes into getting an education becomes a lot less of a good investment, if the only payoff is that you get to learn.

This is called “auditing” and you don’t even have to sneak in to do it. You just ask.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_audit

If you ask, it costs money. In many cases, as much money as just being an enrolled student, and taking the course.

I would say any class that's big enough to where you just blend into the crowd, meaning just a lecture class, is pretty much useless to attend and the same content can be found for free online and with the textbook.

The academic value of college comes from small class discussion (you don't get this in large lectures), direct 1:1 access to professors/TAs, and the ability to work together with other students. If you don't get these, then there's no benefit of attending a lecture in person.

>Nobody takes attendance, and if you look like a student,

>nobody's going to notice that you're not actually

>enrolled in the class.

>And yet, nobody actually does this!

...if they don't take attendance, how do you know nobody does this?

I think people selfishly like many aspects of the covid lockdown. But they may regret it later. I know many school teachers that have enjoyed a very light workload this spring and are rooting for something similar in the fall. It may go on for a while, but at some point administrators and tax payers will realize there is no reason to pay for so many teacher salaries. It’s going to be rough.

There is some amount of capture of returning students. Due to the difficulties of transferring, it may be easier and collectively cheaper for a senior to return for their final year.