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Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by MikusR on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:09AM (#23748003)
That's what AV1 is.
Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by p_l on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:14AM (#23748058)
The situation with AV1 is "we are in middle of minefield and nobody got mine-clearing gear".

They can be reasonably sure they do not infringe known patents from certain Patent Pools and patents declared as part of MPEG-LA bundles. They can't provide reasonable data that they do not infringe on any submarine patent, something that killed 3 attempts by MPEG-LA to provide a royalty-free codec for the web - all that was required to kill it was a note from a company that they "might" have patents covering things they tried to release, or that they decided not to allow royalty-free license for their known patent.

Meanwhile patent search is complex enough that it's unreasonable to impossible to make a statement that you definitely don't infringe any unless you keep clear of anything invented within last ~20 years.

Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by clouddrover on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:32AM (#23748277)
> The situation with AV1 is "we are in middle of minefield and nobody got mine-clearing gear".

That's true of every new video codec. It didn't stop the use of H.264 or VP9 or even HEVC.

Multiple companies have now rolled out AV1 into production. We'll see what happens.

Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by p_l on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:37AM (#23748336)
When I wrote that I didn't know about retaliation clauses in AV1 patent pool license. That said, a huge chunk of patents involved in all MPEG standards (AVC, HEVC, etc.) meant that if you tried to go after them, you might have lost licenses necessary elsewhere, so it's all a question of risk analysis for someone who wants to torpedo AV1 with a patent.

What's wrong is claiming that AV1, VP9, VP8 are "patent-free". They are not.

Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by selectodude on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:13AM (#23748041)
Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by clouddrover on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:16AM (#23748096)
I think that's more a case of Sisvel trying their luck.

I don't think they'll be successful. The Alliance for Open Media was careful to avoid potential patent problems during AV1 development. So, unless AOMedia seriously failed in that effort, AV1 will be alright.

Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by p_l on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:20AM (#23748150)
Being careful and being successful are two different things, especially given how hard it is to do an exhaustive search over patents to ensure that no, no claim in any patent filing touches your code, especially given that there are regimes where patent filings for software get pretty much a rubber stamp and are based around "first to file" even if there's prior art.
Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by ihuman on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:17AM (#23748105)
I'm confused. How is Sisvel able to sell a license for AV1 patents when they're not a member of AOMedia? Do they actually have AV1 patents, or are they trying to trick companies that would rather pay up than risk violating patents?
Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by vertex-four on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:26AM (#23748230)
Basically, unlike copyright, you don't even have to know that someone else patented something in order to infringe on a patent and have them come out of the woodwork later. It's just even more expensive if you do know.

The patent system was not designed to have every tiny little technique patented, and this is its failure mode.

Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by anticensor on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:54AM (#23748554)
> It's just even more expensive if you do know.

In the USA. Wilful and unwilful infringement of the patent costs the same in Europe.

Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by vertex-four on Monday July 06, 2020 @11:24AM (#23748886)
Luckily, software patents are unenforceable in the EU, so for many of us on this site that's irrelevant.
Re:H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC) by inthewings on Monday July 06, 2020 @10:21AM (#23748175)
That's what patent trolling is