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Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by DyslexicAtheist on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:53AM (#23746506)
that's a reductionist view one would take away when not reading his work and just watching or reading what others say about the man or from shallow good-guys-bad-guys narratives the Netflix "documentary" pushes.

Even Bill Joy thought that the dangers of Tech were real. Kaczinsky just reacted differently. In fact he didn't just "react". he "acted" - which if you have read Jacques Ellul and agree with Ellul you know there is no way out from Tech. To paraphrase Slavoj Zizek:

"it's easier imagining the end of the world then to imagine the end of capitalism" (e.g.: it's easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine a future without Technology or Systems.)

Kaczinsky was somebody with a strong desire to change things and who believes the dangers are real. He became what we call "insane" by reading Ellul and decided to live in the woods. He then became "criminally insane" after realizing Ellul was right and that there is no way of escape (and in a literal sense from other humans after they built a highway straight through the place where he sheltered and people starting to come too close).

https://www.wired.com/2000/04/joy-2/

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by dangerface on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:00AM (#23746559)
I mean, you say im reductionist and then describe someone that based his life believes on a book, thats a fruit cake.

He then decided to blow people up because they got too close with their fancy technology... a road, double fruit cake.

What was his point beyond technology bad? The only thing you mention is that Jacques Ellul had the arguments and he was just a fruit cake, which was my argument.

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by oezi on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:04AM (#23746580)
Excuse me asking but what is a fruit cake when it comes to assessing a human and how does it pertain to assessing his book (however you judge it)?
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by vertex-four on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:54AM (#23746932)
It's the same logic as "an insane person can never have a valid complaint about the asylum", a problem which mentally ill people deal on a regular basis with when trying to affect change in their treatment.

Not saying the Unabomber actually has anything worth reading, I've never read the manifesto, but dismissing it wholesale (and angrily) before doing so is rather illogical.

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by dangerface on Monday July 06, 2020 @08:37AM (#23747221)
Based on his actions and reading his manifesto it reads like fruit cake trying to explain why 5g is bad and the only backing their argument has is, "I read a thing on facebook".

As DyslexicAthiest pointed out his beliefies are not reasoned he read some one elses reasoning and then adoped the belief "technlogy bad".

Roads are one of the oldest technologies originally built so we could get armies places faster, arguably a bad thing but those same roads can be use for ambulances that save peoples lives. Its obvious that how people use technology is good or bad and the technology is an inanimate object incapable of ethics, the unaboamber never considers this simply because it is irrelevant to his belief system.

He started to act on his beliefs when a road brought people to his world. He could have blown up roads, bridges, power plants etc but he choose to blow up people.

The unibombers problem was never technology it was people, like a facist he blamed every one else for his problems and technology was his judaism, the solution blow up the problem.

People have accused me of miss-representing him but these people have not read his manifesto the arguments against technology are surface level like some one arguing against 5g because they seen something on facebook, the real meat of his argument reads like mein kampf because thats his belief.

Also I obviously mean fruit cake as in insane not as in gay, I have no idea if he was gay and I really don't care it has no relevance to my argument or his beliefs or actions. I dunno why some one would think his sexuality was relevant but others have commented so wanted to be clear.

- Edit -

lucideer made my argument way better than me. (I had no assumptions when reading it and related to a lot of the right wing worldview)

> the manifesto is an enormous disappointment. It's filled with base broad assumptions, ignorant and unresearched assertions on "leftism" and in particular his treatise on "oversocialization" is so transparently a defensive lashing out at the elements of society that have not been personally accepting of him.

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by uj8efdkjfdshf on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:14AM (#23746645)
It's an English idiom used to describe someone mentally deranged.
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by theelous3 on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:42AM (#23746450)
I mean, I and anyone I've ever spoken to about it, along with what I see as the the general consensus, thinks it's pretty clear that his point was "technology bad".

Why do you say he in fact didn't have a point?

For example, ctrl+f "technology"

> The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict [...etc]

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by dangerface on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:52AM (#23746501)
Because "technology bad" isn't a point it's a statement like 5g makes my dick bigger, there is no reason or logic behind it.

People can do bad things witch technology and we NEED to talk about it and consider the reasoning and logic of that technology as this article does, but this isn't the unibombers point of view he was just "Technology bad"

The article makes good points and talks about ideas which have been talked about by intelectuals like noam chompsky for years. The problem is it then attributes these ideas to a fruit cake whos only contribution to the world was "tecnology bad you blow up now"

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by theelous3 on Monday July 06, 2020 @08:27AM (#23747153)
> isn't a point it's a statement

You can apply this logic to everything that's ever been said or written. It's a nonsense thing to say.

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by dangerface on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:48PM (#23749737)
Questions aren't statements, you can write lots of things that aren't statements. What are you on about?
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by theelous3 on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @01:48PM (#23761938)
I mean, questions are often statements, but way to try and find a semantic exit from the conversation.
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by datenhorst on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:42AM (#23746456)
Something tells me, you didn't actually read it.
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by bad-apple on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:30AM (#23746769)
This manifesto is just the expression of one man's fringe political views. There is a lot of rubbish in it. For example, he spends pages insinuating that leftism is rooted in masochistic, self-hating, chauvinistic tendencies. His argumentation, in the rare cases that there is any, is rather ridiculous. See, for example:

> Leftists protest by lying down in front of vehicles, they intentionally provoke police or racists to abuse them, etc. These tactics may often be effective, but many leftists use them not as a means to an end but because they PREFER masochistic tactics. Self-hatred is a leftist trait.

Of course, this manner of peaceful protest is neither masochistic nor unique to the left, so I'm not sure how he thought that this made any sense. He even acknowledges that it is often effective, and yet he still claims that it is motivated by self-hatred!

If you can highlight anything of value in his manifesto, I'd very much appreciate it.

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by brnt on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:53AM (#23746505)
I think it was a good idea to preface the blogpost with an explanation, but it is hard for me to continue after unsupported statements like "Theodore J. Kaczynski is an extremely intelligent yet wounded man." I guess some evidence may be included elsewhere in the post, but just dropping a sentence like that feels very similar to 4chan-like edginess.
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by caymanjim on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:08AM (#23746606)
What kind of support do you need? It's a simple statement. He was an off-the-charts genius, with a PhD in math, a university professor, his thesis is still cited. Clearly he's emotionally damaged. You don't have to agree with him or like him, and I'm certainly not endorsing him, but there's no denying he was intelligent.
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by brnt on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:10AM (#23746615)
Well, I don't know any of those things. Post could've just said that.
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by DyslexicAtheist on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:03AM (#23746575)
read it and more importantly read jacques Ellul. It's impossible to form an opinion on TK when you haven't read Ellul.
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Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by phaus on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:56AM (#23746522)
For about a hundred years it has also been pretty commonly used as a slur for mentally ill people.
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by tokai on Monday July 06, 2020 @07:29AM (#23746760)
Oh sorry, then it's a-okay I guess. /s
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by phaus on Monday July 06, 2020 @04:11PM (#23752200)
I don't recall saying its OK to use slurs against the mentally ill either.
Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by unethical_ban on Monday July 06, 2020 @12:03PM (#23749283)
It is not homophobic. Don't move the goalpost.

Fruitcakes are full of nuts. You are nuts if you are a fruitcake.

Re:“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the ... by dangerface on Monday July 06, 2020 @06:53AM (#23746507)
In the uk it just means nutjob