I agree, but a lot of enjoyment can still be had with one. My Winnebago cost about as much as a Model X but the places I have gone, the things I have seen...

Its actually very hard to travel by normal car or air now, we just like taking the RV, the space, bathroom and kitchen while driving down the road, our own bed...

You really do need to be handy to own one at this point, it's like a 70's American car. Well the engine and transmission and chassis is fine but everything around it, wow. Luckily it is easy to work on and modify.

I have thought long and hard about trying to start a "Toyota of RVs", I think if you could make a solid, simple well made RV you could dominate the market.

The closest to a “Toyota of RVs” is probably the Erwin Hymer Group, which is expected to finally - after 5+ years of false starts - bring some products to the US in the next 2-3 years: https://newatlas.com/automotive/hymer-usa-european-designed-...

(Many in the US have never heard of Hymer even though they’re huge in Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymer. They’re now owned by Thor, which owns Airstream, Jayco, and many other RV companies: https://www.thorindustries.com/brands)

Hymer North America went bankrupt due various finial "irregularities". I believe what was left was bought by Thor. Left a lot of people out in the cold on warranties from my understanding.

If you want quality look at https://advanced-rv.com, not cheap.

Thor planned to acquire Hymer Europe and NA, but discovered the fraud during due diligence and elected not to acquire the NA business (a lot of which was Roadtrek). Thor/Hymer Europe has formed a new US entity for new products. Most of the high-volume brands are a notch down from there.

I agree about Advanced. A notch down would be Safari Condo’s XL Flex and Leisure Travel Vans.

Good to investigate in uk

I have a 20 year old conversion van. Lot of space if just two people. And you get a good bed and not have to deal with sleeping on the ground or tents. Have a secondary battery which runs an Engel cooler and a small microwave.

Downside: No bathroom, shower, stove, etc.

Upside: No plumbing to maintain. Lot smaller than an RV.

Do you think you're missing something by not being "part" of the environment while driving? As in, you drive through instead of "drive in"? I only drive with the windows down because I want to be a part of the landscape I'm in. I think a motorcycle is the ultimate crystallization of that.

On the hand, if it convincs you make trips you otherwise wouldn't have made, I think it's a win. I love Road tripping because it forces you to deal with stuff, especially if you're doing it in less developed countries. Probably the most fun I've ever had is driving long distance in Africa. You really never know what's going to happen next!

Never understood this fascination with "crapping in the woods" so to speak. We have evolved past not having to do that yet some want to find their way back to the same old for some reason.

In the end, this seems like different goals - some just want to enjoy nature but not live in any delusion that we need to be more paleolithic to have the most authentic experience, others crave this process more than the end location. I identify more with the former group, and an RV sounds like a better bet for people like that.

I would be curious to know which is the least destructive to the places been to and the environment though. If the RV is worse, maybe that's one argument. But I'm not sure that makes sense - someone who stays in the hotel might end up costing more in resources maybe?

I'm not talking about capping in the woods, just needing other people for things is a great way to experience the world: having to go to a restaurant or store to get food, go to a motel to sleep, etc.

Like poor neighborhoods have so much more community than rich ones because people genuinely need each other to get by. When you're completely independent and don't need anyone, I think you've lost one of the things that gives life its value.

That's fair, but I would wager that countries where RVs make sense (US mainly) is a disjoint set from countries where you have a rich community that's also affordable. If I'm traveling the states by a motorcycle or car I'm stuck with having my meals often at a subway and staying in a super 8 (assuming you're middle class).

I feel the opposite, I have never seen as much of the landscape as through the giant window in my RV while driving. Its one thing I look forward to is just the drive and the stuff seen along the way while having all the normal conveniences.

Also towing a Jeep with us makes a huge difference being able to really explore anywhere around where we are staying and see the sights. I really love Colorado and a Jeep is the way to really see it.

If I was single I might have a smaller RV with just a motorcycle, but with the whole family this setup is perfect, and it seems like kids have really got a lot out of it, they frequently talk about the places we been in the RV and love traveling in it.

C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate?

I don't think so. More like the "Weltraumputze" [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm357719449... at [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm394629324... from there [3] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm285577420... or there [4] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer /rm3862407169

Right? [5] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/mediaviewer/rm150543104...

You get what you pay for.

Class A diesel RVs are designed for retired couples to drive around the country and live quite well. They plummet in price the first few years and if you're past 10 years old (usually harder to get a loan), the price drops more, often to 25% or less of the new price.

They have pretty beefy systems, with 7kw diesel generators quite common. The engine and chassis will be designed to flat tow a car (or a huge trailer).

And some have pretty interesting features, like tile floors, two bathrooms, in-floor heating, two bathrooms and washer/dryers.

but yeah, choose a good brand.

In Canada a Class A brand new can be $400k+. A 10 year old Class A at 25% of the price is still a $100k vehicle. And because they are built like garbage, the repairs start adding up.

I am convinced that if you do the math, it makes more sense for the couple months a year a retired couple will travel to just buy a nice vehicle and do AirBNBs and have no compromise in terms of Shower length, amount of hot water, and other amenities.

Also, don’t get me started on the cost of fuel relative to a normal vehicle. Their fuel economy is abysmal. Think: Russian Tank.

If you just do the math, yeah, buy a fuel efficient travel vehicle and do hotels / cabins / Airbnb.

Just not for me, have done plenty of that and I like my RV better. I can drive 8 hours straight with the kids no stops to a great state park and be chilling by 3pm do it again the next day all the way across the country sleeping in my own bed.

Yes its horrible mileage, I mean I am dragging my whole house with me, but thats what makes it nice too. Its not for everyone but if you like the whole "super-carrier" thing you probably will like it.

I can tell you, you are rather an exception in this mindset.

There are tons of drawbacks in reality compared to romantic idea of 'dragging your whole home with you'. Financially it doesn't make sense. You become a slave of your motor home. It drives like shit.

But far worst for me is, you create your own bubble. You travel, yet want to keep your cozy 'home'. That's completely opposite to why I travel - experience unique, vastly different, exotic places, interact with strangers, other cultures, eat local food etc. Dive deep into the place. This is much more interesting goal of traveling compared to just 'seeing places and staying comfortable'.

You might think we're comparing uncomparable - cruising around rather homogeneous US vs traveling i say South east Asia. Not at all - here in Europe we have such a diversity of cultures that those 'exotic' experiences can be had quite easily with few hundred kms of drive. South is nothing like north, east vs west the same. Every country is pretty unique.

I agree a big RV seems like a US thing and the kind of travel you are talking about appealed to me more when I was younger, but with a family and kids its really nice to go explore during the day and go by to our bubble at night and move on to the next place.

We have seen a lot of diverse stuff in the US and financially, well traveling for pleasure doesn't really make sense, its worth it to me so far.

I did do a good amount of work to make my RV drive better, again if someone could make a simple well made RV I think the demand would be high, its really nice way to travel and see the US.

> In Canada a Class A brand new can be $400k+. A 10 year old Class A at 25% of the price is still a $100k vehicle.

Yes, they can also be $125k. Your AirBNB option can also cost $4,000/night. Picking a price toward the top of the line does not make for a good argument.

And yes, mileage is not great, but it’s not as bad as a tank - a Class A diesel can easily get 8-9 MPG without trying, and a bit of care can get you to see 10-12.

Your point is well taken, though are there actually Class A RVs that, brand new, cost $125k?

Yes. In the US you can find brand new 29’ Class A RVs for less than half that, but quality is relative with price paid (aka, it’ll be cheap crap).

Yeah sorta, its amazing how bad the QA is even on expensive motorhomes. If you are used to buying a reliable modern car you will be in for a shock when purchasing even a high end RV when it comes to the quality and integration.

Get a class C that's built on an off the shelf truck chassis (usually Mercedes Sprinter or Ford E-350/450) and at least the chassis will be reliable. You'll still have to deal with problems with the RV parts but at least you'll be able to drive it (unless your problem is that the slide-out won't retract)

I agree with this statement and I should have been clearer previously. When I complain about build quality and lack of innovation, it is solely with respect to what the RV assembler does with the Mercedes or Ford chassis.

it's better to build on a spartan or freightliner chassis

It all depends on whether it's a class-C type cutaway where the cab is built by the chassis manufacturer (so you get a steel cab plus airbags and other safety features), or a class-A built on a stripped chassis where everything but the frame and engine comes from the RV manufacturer -- many of those are essentially a lightweight box on top of the frame and will disintegrate in a crash, and you'll likely not survive a rollover crash. Even with a cutaway chassis, depending on how much of the cab they cutover for cab access, you may not fare too well, but much better than with nothing but a wood and fiberglass box surrounding you.

With a cutaway, the manufacturer takes care of all of the steering linkages, driving controls, etc so you have some assurance of quality -- everything related to driving is built by the company with the most experience in building trucks and cars rather than the RV manufacturer.

I don't know what you get in the $300K+ Newmars and other expensive rigs since that's way out of my (and most people's) price range.

Yeah, one of my friends just bought a brand new RV (I don't know the details), but spent basically a month after purchase getting a whole bunch of QA fixes made, from the minor and cosmetic to fairly major.

They're built like crap because they have to be lightweight and affordable.

They are not lightweight. In the case of many Class C motorhomes build on the Ford E chassis, the manufacturer has used plywood for everything. There are certainly opportunities to build with marginally more expensive materials to make major weight gains.

For the uninitiated, what materials are we talking about here?

The plywood mentioned by GP is kind of heavy, and it needs framing for stiffness too. The molded steel used in "real" cars and trucks would be lighter. So would something handmade from carbon. Just thinking by analogy with boat hulls, I don't see why fiberglass wouldn't work either. My parents have a pickup camper the walls of which are made from Styrofoam or something similar. This seems to work; I can climb on the roof to adjust the antenna and I'm fat.