https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kin...
e.g. David Cameron, Eton educated prime-minister, described himself as middle class.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25744526
Edit: You could argue that everyone is middle class these days - almost nobody self identifies as working class and there are so few real upper class people (I've never met one).
Edit2: Of course, you used to be able to buy entry into the upper class. But that doesn't happen anymore ;-)
That is my impression as an outsider anyway. I'm sure the details are different somehow.
Those toffs can absolutely shred you, while complimenting you the entire time.
It's watching the English language being wielded as a weapon.
We recently had a woman that works for the State Department give testimony, and one of the things she mentioned, in her prepared remarks, was that she came to the US, because she couldn't get a fair shake in the UK, due to her "Northern accent," despite some heavy-duty cred.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5gmpdtbWB0
The one thing that the Indian caste system has, is something to outlaw.
Since it is so codified, there's a specific thing to point to in a law.
Even if you become a doctor you still won't be a part of the aristocracy.
The best you can do is upper middle class. That might mean you're the head of a FTSE100 company, which is still pretty good but you won't be upper class until the Queen dishes out a knighthood for all great works of charity you'll do.
...and even then though you'll probably still wear the wrong kind of shoes and hold your knife a bit funny at supper.
Although I work closely with many people in India I don't understand the caste system at all. So I'm just listening to the rest of the conversation and being informed.
European caste system on the other hand is very clear on who is royalty, and who isn't. In fact even today in countries like Denmark, ordinary people are NOT allowed to have royal second names.
God is also monopolised by the church and the clergy, until people (the new middle class) started quitting the church.
Please do not mistake the progress made due to economic development to social changes, and the other way around.
I've spent 6 months backpacking all over india in 2008 and 2010, and what I saw there broke my heart many times. The frequent kindness of the poorest folks on top of their misfortunes was very inspiring though
Caste on the other hand is an entirely different beast, as you have rightly pointed out.
The Hindu caste system talks about spiritual evolution of the soul as it goes from body to body in each birth.
You might be a lower-caste in this birth, but you might get upper-caste birth in a next life. And vice-versa. That's how you escape it.
Well, atheists don't believe in anything before or after this life. It's usually such people who have no fear of committing crimes when they are confident they won't get caught.
> why should you not suffer in this current life?
they will suffer. But not because of you or me. But because of reactions to their actions long ago.
Does it mean you can ill-treat them without consequence ? No. If you do so, you will be born in that caste in a next-life and suffer the same oppression they're facing now.
I think this is the opposite of a caste system.
Now America in the other hand, we hold greater respect for self-made immigrant success stories than a privileged rich kid spending daddy’s money.
I did not mean to offend anyone. I was simply talking about my experience, in my life, and my outlook. I am very grateful for others sharing their experiences and outlooks, and it has helped me to understand things a bit better. I appreciate it. Really.
I understand that this is an emotional topic, and that some people have suffered greatly.
But let's not turn this into a flame war.
'K?
K.
I've enjoyed the responses, and the responses to responses. I've learned a bit from it.
This has been a really good thread, about a topic that has a thousand years of pain behind it.
Caste and class are similar but not the same. Merging the two concepts into one is useful for generating outrage and maybe for bonding, but less useful for understanding the suffering of one society compared to another.
The British system has a lot more to do with who mommy and daddy are, than what the sheepskin says.
It's pretty hard for people raised in the US to understand it. We keep looking at it through our lens, and we have a relatively young, egalitarian, culture that started when our continent was used as an overflow for the prison system.
A lot of folks in the UK try to get ahead by modifying their speaking patterns and accent. My mother had impeccable English (her mother sounded like she came from Liverpool). She was a scientific editor, and was absolutely brutal. I know. She edited some of my work.
I don't think it really got her what she wanted.
EDIT: I removed the quote of your insult, and simply flagged your post. Let's be adults, here. I'll probably remove this post before the two hours are up.
Flat-out, deadly, insults are. It was delivered as an insult.
> Don't take this the wrong way this is your white privilege showing
I didn't "take it the wrong way." I took it exactly as it was intended.
What's ironic, is that the insult was delivered without the person even taking a few minutes to find out a bit more about me. I don't hide anything. It's all there, for you to examine.
I understand that this is an emotional issue, which was why I carefully kept all of my responses to my own experience, and never made a value judgement.
I'd suggest that you read through all my comments, and point out my insults. If I have inadvertently done so, then I sincerely apologize, and will make any amends possible.
I am not Indian, and won't even pretend to understand what Indians of lower caste go through, but I do have some experience in the British system.
Comes from growing up overseas (I live in the US), and having servants.
These were the people that raised us, and were, for all intents and purpose, “family.”
Except they weren’t, and when I found out how they lived, it broke my heart.
I was also raised by a British mother, who was an awesome woman, but came from a middle-class Liverpool (“scouse”) family, and spent her entire early life feeling “not good enough,” despite attending an Ivy-League university, and excelling at her work (http://cmarshall.com/miscellaneous/SheilaMarshall.htm).
Knowing how she felt also broke my heart.
The British have a heavy-duty caste system that isn’t as codified as India’s, but just as pervasive.
Of course, in the US (and, I believe, in other parts of the world), we are currently facing a reckoning about another type of “caste system.”
There seems to be an innate human need to “just be better” than others. I think we all have it, and have to make a conscious effort to suppress the impulse.