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Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by rickbutton on Monday June 29, 2020 @03:59PM (#23681952)
Why? There is a massive political movement for racial equality happening all over the country. They are responding to pressure from consumers, which they very much should, because all of these companies have ignored these issues for decades. They aren't coordinating with each other in some conspiracy to silence white supremacists. The -people- want white supremacists to be deplatformed (a good thing!).
Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by disposekinetics on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:10PM (#23682115)
This is why you never give into the mob, even when their point is a good one. That's how individual rights are lost to the collective.
Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by snowwrestler on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:50PM (#23682823)
No one has a right to post on Reddit or Youtube.

If we want to be concerned about individual rights, we should at least be somewhat accurate about the definition of the word.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by nbardy on Monday June 29, 2020 @05:59PM (#23683734)
When a set small of companies control your ability to communicate freely on the internet and they act in consort it becomes an issue of free speech.
Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by tathougies on Monday June 29, 2020 @06:20PM (#23684012)
Honestly, we need to rethink this.

For example, I 'own' my sidewalk, but anyone can protest there. A lot of public space is privately owned, but can still be used for protest.

The internet is the new public square. It can be privately owned, but still forced to recognize the rights of the public.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by hnick on Monday June 29, 2020 @09:42PM (#23685612)
I'm not sure what the laws are for physical protests. Do mall car parks and similar places on "private" but non-enclosed land have to accommodate public protest? Is that sort of thing what you're talking about?

I'm leaning towards the idea that platforms with no barrier to entry should be treated as public to some degree, while those with a sign-up process more involved than email and password are still treated as private.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by tathougies on Tuesday June 30, 2020 @02:43AM (#23687316)
No... I'm talking about things like 'privately-owned public space' in cities like San Francisco (so Salesforce park), or city sidewalks.

In most cities, the land owner even in downtown will own the sidewalks, but there is an 'easement' that says it's a public right of way. However, it's a public space, and anyone can protest or say what they want there. Their freedom of speech is protected, even though the land is private. The land is certainly private because the landowner is responsible for upkeep and can generally modify it so long as the sidewalk meets certain requirements.

Here's an example in New York City where the Occupy protests took place: https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/the-21-million-sidewalk-how...

All this is to say is that we have a model for privately owned public space -- spaces where private interests have certain rights and obligations and ownership but where accomodations for the public must be made.

Here's another example in London and Portland: https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/public-space-battle-playing...

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jul/24/revealed-pseu...

In San Francisco at least -- only using it because I'm most familiar -- certain buildings are required to have public spaces, and you in general have a right to be in this space for free. There are even some beautiful rooftop decks that are privately owned but have been made public to meet the requirement -- like the deck on one kearny.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by iron0013 on Monday June 29, 2020 @06:25PM (#23684080)
If by “it” you mean privately-owned websites, then no, it cannot be forced to do so. That would be a violation of the websites’ owners own freedom of speech. Not to mention their property rights! I thought the right to absolutely control one’s own private property was the most sacrosanct of conservative values?
Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by Karunamon on Monday June 29, 2020 @06:44PM (#23684298)
"Private" property becomes morally murky when you extend an invitation to the general public to use that space. Doubly so when a small handful of these privately-owned websites are responsible for carrying a the vast majority of the of the discourse on the internet.

As it stands, Google+Youtube, Facebook, and Reddit (1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th most popular websites in the country) currently have the power to ban, or worse, guide, all discussion of any topic they wish, with no accountability whatsoever. That is a frightening amount of power to have, and one that I don't believe the free market is equipped to deal with its abuses.

This latter problem is something I'm legitimately surprised more people are not concerned about. Just because they're using this power to target something you don't like doesn't mean it won't be used for more nefarious purposes in the future.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by patrickaljord on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:04PM (#23682017)
The fact that it all happened on the same day does imply some kind of coordination though.
Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by nradov on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:20PM (#23682290)
The pressure is more directly from advertisers. Major consumer brands don't want their advertisements appearing next to objectionable user generated content.
Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by snowwrestler on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:52PM (#23682856)
Why not? Because their customers don't like it either.

It all comes down to what is popular and unpopular--which is fine in a marketplace. That's exactly how marketplaces are supposed to work.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by chrischattin on Monday June 29, 2020 @06:31PM (#23684157)
It could also be coming from investors. Tencent owns a major chunk of Reddit now.
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Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by fault_lines on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:18PM (#23682246)
"Screaming 'racism' at people because blacks are collectively less intelligent...is insane."

“You cannot run a high IQ [white] society with low IQ [non-white] people…these [non-white] immigrants are going to fail...and they're not just going to fail a little, they are going to fail hard…they're not staying on welfare because they’re lazy...they’re doing what is economically the best option for them...you are importing a gene set that is incompatible with success in a free-market economy.”

—YouTube video, The Death of Europe | European Migrant Crisis, October 4, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eydDN55Vyc&amp=&feature=you...

This is just two quotes from one appearance. There are many more: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/indi...

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by mesozoic on Tuesday June 30, 2020 @03:12AM (#23687490)
Video is gone can't be verified.
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Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by fault_lines on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:33PM (#23682543)
You should revise your original statement from "he didn't say those things" to "he said those things, but I agree with them". Thanks.
Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by etherael on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:40PM (#23682664)
I don't agree with them, I don't believe that a statistically observed difference in a particular trait according to racial phenotypes implies that racial phenotype is "inferior" or "superior" to begin with. And it turns out that just as I originally said, he didn't say them.

To clarify, what exactly is it that you disagree with, that the statistical observation in question exists, or that if it does exist, it doesn't necessarily imply that the racial phenotype in question must be "superior" or "inferior"?

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by Kednicma on Monday June 29, 2020 @05:56PM (#23683682)
I'll take your second branch, and I'll take the contrapositive: Because there is such overwhelming evidence that all humans belong to a single genetic legacy, one single race, we therefore must reject the entire premise that started the statistical inquiry. Instead, we are obligated to realize that IQ is not correlated with some mythic "g" number, and instead correlated with socioeconomic status and quality of education.
Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by etherael on Monday June 29, 2020 @07:16PM (#23684576)
> I'll take your second branch, and I'll take the contrapositive:

What I originally said was;

"it does exist, it doesn't necessarily imply that the racial phenotype in question must be "superior" or "inferior"?"

So the contrapositive to that would be that it does imply that racial phenotype differences must also necessarily imply superior or inferior.

To give you credit though, that does not seem to actually be what you're saying at all though. Breaking down what you do actually say;

> Because there is such overwhelming evidence that all humans belong to a single genetic legacy

Has nothing to do with what I said at all. I never claimed that racial phenotypes imply a separation in species.

> one single race

Appears to deny the existence of racial phenotypes by interpreting the term "race" to mean "species". That doesn't mean that racial phenotypes don't actually exist.

> we therefore must reject the entire premise that started the statistical inquiry.

Putting aside the question that this assumes that the entire premise that started the statistical inquiry in question is well known and completely accepted already, and regardless of what we do to the premise that started the statistical inquiry in question, we still have the results of the statistical inquiry in question to contend with.

This doesn't actually answer any questions.

> Instead, we are obligated to realize that IQ is not correlated with some mythic "g" number

I should hope we are not obligated to realise that at all, because as a simple question of correlation, g factor and IQ is indeed highly correlated, so any such obligation would make us willfully ignorant. In fact the way some IQ tests have their efficiency measured is to observe that correlation. To say that again for emphasis; it is the very way in which many of the tests in question are given validity.

> instead correlated with socioeconomic status and quality of education.

There's no "instead" here. IQ scores correlate statistically on all three measures (amongst many others).

Frankly, the way people address this entire issue desperately trying to make it something other than what it clearly is, when what it clearly is doesn't necessarily imply that it is thus somehow acceptable to persecute racial minorities, or view a specific racial phenotype as "inferior" or "superior" actually does favours to the racial tribalist perspective.

If there's an observable undeniable widespread campaign resulting in the continuous deplatforming and vigorous persecution of all the people in the world who dare to point out that the sky is blue because some of the people who claim that the sky is blue also claim that therefore all people that aren't blue should be killed, and that there's a conspiracy to suppress the fact that the sky is blue, that puts them at definitely correct regarding two of three points, and silencing everybody who claims simply that the sky is blue and nobody should be killed as a consequence of it removes the visibility of the most compelling argument for why the narrative that all non blue people should be killed is ridiculous.

Instead all that remains for the neutral disinterested observer is a massive chorus of people claiming that all blue people / non blue people should be killed and that the sky is any colour other than blue. All under a blue sky. Is it any wonder they throw their hands up and go crazy?

Once upon a time I would've said I don't understand this seeming stupidity, but being older and more cynical now I can't help but suspect it's simply a desperate attempt to throw more fuel on the divide and conquer bonfire by entrenched political elites so the underclass can be kept at each other's throats over table scraps while the aforementioned political overclass gleefully continues looting the vast majority of global wealth.

But hey, I'm just a crazy conspiracy theorist, now continuously rate limited for my evil wrongthink, so whatever.

I'm disgusted with, and tired of this place.

I've been here eleven years now and I've watched the quality, slowly at first, and with increasing rapidity in more recent years, decline and the minds that gather here spew thought terminating cliches in progressively more shrill chorus as time has gone on, and writing this now I realise that I just get nothing whatsoever out of engagement here anymore, so this will be my final post.

Best of luck to anyone who intends to stick around and see if it pulls out of its decade long nosedive, but I'm done.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by Kednicma on Tuesday June 30, 2020 @08:23AM (#23689328)
Glad to hear it. One nitpick: The contraposition of some claim P -> Q is not ~P -> ~Q, but ~Q -> ~P. I hope that you study some logic and biology in your newfound spare time. Best of luck.
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Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by Jon_Lowtek on Monday June 29, 2020 @05:53PM (#23683659)
Antifa USA 2020 is not the paramilitary wing of a german stalinist party, even if "Antifa in Germany 1931" was one. It is not the same organisation. It is a lifestyle branding sold to left wing youth, like Che Guevara t-shirts.

Now there is an organisation in the USA that has recently started to use the Antifa Branding. It's called Torch Network or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Racist_Action but that one, too is not related to Germany 1931 or to Stalinism.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by m0zg on Monday June 29, 2020 @07:01PM (#23684448)
It might be news to you, but very few of the people who participated in the successful Russian communist revolution of 1917 were knowledgeable about the finer points of Marxism too. You don't really need that many. The rest can be useful idiots. The few knowledgeable people behind the scenes know and exploit this. 6 months before it happened, BTW, Lenin said in a lecture in Zurich that a revolution would not happen in his lifetime. But a rail car full of German cash helped things along quite nicely. So if you think this can't happen here, you should probably reconsider.

Same with Cultural Revolution in China or Khmer Rouge. Same with Nazi Germany - I seriously doubt Hans Sixpack hated Jews or Slavs all that much. In a way, Fascism was too "lifestyle branding". Germans, down and out after WW1, were sold this grand vision of Third Reich and Lebensraum stretching shore to shore on the Eurasian continent. Oh, and if you're against it, not only you'd get "canceled", you'd get shot by the nearest ditch. We're a few years out from that at the moment. In terms of tangibles outside lifestyle branding, BTW, Antifa at the time wasn't that different from fascists themselves. They wanted a communist authoritarianism, hammer and sickle and everything, while fascists wanted more of a capitalist version. Any sort of "democracy" wasn't even up for discussion.

Same with communism. Why wouldn't a "working class" Ivan Sixpack want to "own" the factory he works in? It did not occur to Ivan to think about what that'd actually mean in practice. 5 years later Ivan dies of starvation, 15 years later his extended family ends up dying in Gulag, for being "counterrevolutionary element". He did not end up improving his condition before he kicked the bucket either: the factory is now owned by the state, and it's illegal to not work there. Ivan was a useful idiot, and he outlived his usefulness. Don't be like Ivan.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by Jon_Lowtek on Monday June 29, 2020 @10:33PM (#23685904)
You add nothing to your claim that it is the same organization and i will keep refuting that as the nonsense it is.

> The FBI says antifa uses social media to organize, but there’s no specific organization or leadership structure.

To me it looks like a very loose group of "anti-parental-authority" youth on the left fringe, which mostly idiolises fantasy-feelgood-anarchism, mixed with some older anti-klan streams that are special to the USA. You can't just claim that is the continuation of the paramilitary wing of KPD 1931 halfway across the planet, then also claim it is basically Thälmanns KPD, which is basically Stalin himself, because all things loosely related are the same thing. I call bullshit.

Those far fetched stories about how revolutionaries have found themselves abused by some autocratic authoritarian putschists are nice and true, but they do not give any substance to your claim that current Antifa USA is a stalinist organization. Your argument seems to be "all leftist revolution must end in stalinism, therefor they are all stalinists", which is so ridiculous, there should be some Godwins law variant for that.

That democracy you speak of is based on the believe in pluralism, yet you deny the existence of pluralism in the vague field that spans from KPD and Antifa 1931 to todays USA. You somehow completely ignore the 1980s hardcore anarchistic punk scene, 90 years of history, and instead you throw in some "cancel culture" and "maoist culture revolution". You have nothing backing your claim that it is a stalinist organization except matching symbols on anti-capitalist merchandise sold for $5.99 and a generalized red scare.

Now i agree with you on warning about the dangers of totalitarian authoritarianism. On that part we are fine. But you are crying wolves because of a freaking chihuahua! Yes that thing is related to wolves, and it is annoying, but you are the idiot for thinking they are the same. Freedom and Liberalism are not attacked by some rioting teenagers in downtown Seattle. Those who make encryption illegal and want everything on the net monitored by the Ministry for State Security for signs of domestic terrorism, those are the wolves.

Re:YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer... by vkou on Monday June 29, 2020 @04:35PM (#23682572)
> It stopped being that within a couple of days of starting and was co-opted to advance other goals. It's for "racial equality" only inasmuch as no sane person will argue _against_ racial equality. Same as "antifascism" is also _nominally_ against something that's unquestionably bad, so no sane person will disagree with the core premise.

This is a wonderful theory, but the past couple of years (Centuries, in the case of racial equality) of political discourse in America has shown that it does not match reality.

There are plenty people who have no problem arguing for racism, or for fascism, and thanks to Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Reddit, those people have gained both a lot more influence and a lot of, to put it charitably, allies of convenience - or, to put it uncharitably, true believers.