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Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by marcus_holmes on Thursday June 25, 2020 @10:04AM (#23640877)
This.

In any group you will need to agree on a set of rules about these things. A Code of Conduct doesn't change that, just makes it explicit.

The reason that Codes of Conduct are good is that it makes the life of an organiser so much easier. If Bob is being weird around the ladies (again), then an organiser can take him to one side and point to the "no being weird around the ladies" clause in the CoC. This is a massively easier discussion than without the CoC, where they would have to explain to Bob that his behaviour around the ladies was causing them distress, etc.

Yes, this includes "grey" areas, because it involves human feelings and emotions. Charles might behave in a similar manner to Bob, but not be "weird" about it, and people find him funny not creepy. Therefore he's not breaking the "don't be weird around the ladies" rule. That's down to human perception, unfortunately for Bob.

But that rule already existed, and was already "grey". Without the CoC, the organiser would still need to take Bob to one side and have the chat. Because weirding out the female members of the group is a dick move regardless. And Charles would still get a pass because he wasn't being weird. The CoC hasn't changed anything, just made it explicit.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by detaro on Thursday June 25, 2020 @10:07AM (#23640905)
It also makes an explicit commitment by the organizer that they'll react in some way to complaints covered by the CoC, and tells people how/where to make such complaints. I.e. if an organizer ignores something, they can be pointed to "but you committed to upholding these rules for your event".
Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by marcus_holmes on Thursday June 25, 2020 @11:27AM (#23641802)
yes, good point :)
Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by Chris2048 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:36PM (#23643229)
> Charles might behave in a similar manner to Bob, but not be "weird" about it, and people find him funny not creepy.

So it's all down to the interpretation (of both the CoC, and whether behaviour falls within it) of the organiser? Especially under such vague standards as "being weird" or "being creepy?

This sound like the exact problem with CoCs. And the "rule-breaking" aspect goes both ways. It's eventually a way to streamline the process by shutting down group dissent. Work fine if the rules, and their enforcement are just; not so much otherwise.

> But that rule already existed, and was already "grey"

No it didn't. The reasoning behind the rule did, but not the rule. Once the rule exists people can appeal to the rule directly without considering the reasoning behind it; Much like arguing that abortion is bad because it is murder, without reconsidering why murder is bad in the first place and re-engaging with that logic in the context of abortion.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by TuringTest on Friday June 26, 2020 @10:27AM (#23652317)
> It's eventually a way to streamline the process by shutting down group dissent. Work fine if the rules, and their enforcement are just; not so much otherwise.

What you're missing is that this is something that will happen anyway, explicit CoC or not. Someone with power will always be in a position to judge the rules and enforce them in his own way on someone without power, by definition.

But if there is an explicit code, you are warned in advance of the actions that will more likely trigger enforcement, instead of finding them after the fact.

Therefore, you can decide to avoid those actions, or avoid the event entirely. In some ways, an explicit CoC is giving more power to participants over the organizer, not the opposite.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by Chris2048 on Friday June 26, 2020 @04:00PM (#23656292)
> Someone with power will always be in a position to judge

True, but maybe a CoC gave them that power. A CoC is a sufficient-but-not-necessary condition for such abuses.

> an explicit CoC is giving more power to participants

In the sense that it gives an opportunity to self police. The biggest army never needs to fight.