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Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by astronautjones on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:08AM (#23636808)
> The NASA HQ was named after somebody to celebrate traits they didn't earn or choose

to celebrate them for their achievements made while fighting uphill and exponentially harder than their white counterparts in a society rigged against them in uncountable avenues

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by saagarjha on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:42PM (#23636674)
> If their achievements were that incredible, we would've heard much more about them.

No? Minorities are marginalized all the time.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by tartoran on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:13PM (#23636520)
It’s a symbolic gesture relax. While it irks you it might inspire a young black kid to become an astronomer or phisicist or astronaut. As a white there are plenty of inspiring people. Some of them have been power hungry and ruthless and nobody knows how many people they trampled on. Some of those are white symbols. Why not let balcks have their own?
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by cyberlurker on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:27PM (#23636589)
As a white person who has experienced imposter syndrome at times in the tech world, I think I would have had a harder time overcoming it if I looked around and never saw another white person. Obviously that is not the case. I suspect giving young black girls someone to look up to is more powerful than people realize. If naming a building helps with that, why not do it?

Also, if we are really going to suddenly be meritocratic above all else, we must immediately remove a lot of names from things. I don't want to get too far removed from engineering, but it's a great argument for getting rid of Confederate names.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by SenHeng on Thursday June 25, 2020 @09:20AM (#23640393)
Reminds me of what Neil deGrasse Tyson said about being a visible black authority figure of science and knowledge.

> In an undated interview at Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Tyson talked about being black and one of the most visible and well-known scientists in the world. He told a story about being interviewed about a plasma burst from the sun on a local Fox affiliate in 1989. "I'd never before in my life seen an interview with a black person on television for expertise that had nothing to do with being black. And at that point, I realized that one of the last stereotypes that prevailed among people who carry stereotypes is that, sort of, black people are somehow dumb. I wondered, maybe ... that's a way to undermine this sort of, this stereotype that prevailed about who's smart and who's dumb. I said to myself, 'I just have to be visible, or others like me, in that situation.' That would have a greater force on society than anything else I could imagine."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson#Race_and_s...

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by tartoran on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:42PM (#23636668)
Exactly!
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Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by tzs on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:08AM (#23636807)
It's the same reason we have a black history month in the US but not a white history month, or the same reason we have gay pride month but not straight pride month.

It's because every month is a white history month, and every month is a straight pride month.

A white child in the US is very unlikely to get the impression that their race might make it hard or impossible for them to become an engineer, so there is no need or benefit to specifically pointing out to your child that some great engineer is white.

Not so for a black child. There is a very real possibility that their being black will make it harder for them to become an engineer. Being show other people who faced the same hardships and overcame them can help keep them from getting discouraged.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by luckylion on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:05AM (#23637104)
> Not so for a black child. There is a very real possibility that their being black will make it harder for them to become an engineer.

There's also the very clear benefit of affirmative action that makes it easier to become an engineer, preferential treatment at top schools etc.

While a white child, and even more so an Asian one, might look at laws and statistics and Harvard and realize that, indeed, it is provably harder for them to become an engineer.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by cyberlurker on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:46PM (#23636697)
Who would say you're racist for showing that white engineer?

Also...I'm not a minority, but I can imagine that if I looked around and there were none of my kind in a position of power, I'd start to think maybe I shouldn't be there.

You can show a white child a picture of a white professional all day long and personally I wouldn't call you a racist.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by saagarjha on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:41PM (#23636665)
The issue is that children are much more likely to see a white engineer and a black one, so you’re not really showing your child anything new.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by ip26 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:33AM (#23636938)
You assume it was a trivial matter to become the first black female engineer there.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by starpilot on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:03AM (#23636789)
Sorry for the copypasta, but this actually moved me. I really didn't learn about these things:

> You learned about Helen Keller instead of W.E.B. DuBois

> You learned about the Watts and L.A. Riots, but not Tulsa or Wilmington.

> You learned that George Washington’s dentures were made from wood, rather than the teeth from slaves.

> You learned about black ghettos, but not about Black Wall Street.

More: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213622838

It's truly insidious how systematic this is in our lives.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by defen on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:14AM (#23636841)
If you went purely by merit / contributions to the space program you'd probably have to name it after a literal Nazi who employed slave labor. If that's not acceptable, then you have to admit that pure merit is not the right criteria, and that there is a political aspect to it as well.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by jasonlotito on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:10AM (#23637124)
You say it’s absurd, but don’t give any reasons why the negatives outweighs the benefits. They don’t, so I can see how this is remotely abused.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by guerrilla on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:09PM (#23636499)
Overcoming sexism and racism is something to be proud of and for others to celebrate. Nobody's celebrating this person for their identity in isolation but overcoming a situation where all the odds are very much stacked against a person of such an identity.

> If their achievements were that incredible, we would've heard much more about them. Plenty of white engineers had successful careers, contributed to their program, performed well, but will forever go un-named

This isn't remotely true. The majority of things are named after white men to the exclusion of everyone else.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Thorentis on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:17PM (#23636545)
> The majority of things are named after white men to the exclusion of everyone else.

That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men. I'm not celebrating that fact, I'm just pointing out the source of the statistic you've pointed out. The things weren't named because the person was a white male, they were named because of a tremendous achievement that happened to be made by a white male. When the majority of engineers are white men, that's when you get that trend. As we see more black men/women achieve great things, we will see more things named after them.

Unfortunately, the rate of scientific and natural discovery in my opinion is slowing down. There will never be a black Christopher Columbus because there are no continents left to discover. There won't be a black Thomas Edison, because we already have light globes. Going out of our way to inflate other achievements just for the sake of naming buildings after minorities is a ridiculous thing to do.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Ar-Curunir on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:28PM (#23636593)
Mate, shut up with the nonsense. There are many scientific concepts that originated in Asian/MiddleEastern civilizations that simply happen to have a European name because the latter person popularized it in the West.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by astronautjones on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:10AM (#23636814)
the reason "politics" are so derided on this website is because these guys can't stop themselves from impulsively showing their true colors (and exposing the very endemic racism at hand in the process!) at the drop of a hat
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Fasdfggw on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:45AM (#23637287)
Maybe, but I think an equally large problem is the habit people have of (i) dichotomizing every issue and (ii) simply painting another person as racist/horrible or otherwise socially unfit. No one can have a real conversation where this is the norm.

Yes, this is a throwaway. Yes, I shouldn't do it. But frankly, it's the only way I would ever comment on something like this. Everyone involved in American culture war subjects is too toxic. Too many norms of debate about almost every topic are toxic. It'll be the end of your country if this continues.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Ar-Curunir on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:52AM (#23637316)
Really? The problem is people pointing out racism, and not the fact that the fabric of the country is woven from racism?
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by LudwigNagasena on Thursday June 25, 2020 @02:18AM (#23637458)
The fabric of the country is indeed woven with racism. That’s why even people who think they “point out” racism are often very racist.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Thorentis on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:14AM (#23637144)
Please point out the racism in the comment you're talking about.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by LudwigNagasena on Thursday June 25, 2020 @02:27AM (#23637501)
What concepts are you talking about? Do you have examples? For example, as far as I know no one tried to make alcohol, algebra, algorithm distinctly European. In fact you can realize these words came from Middle East because all of them are prefixed with “al-“, Arabic for “the”.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Thorentis on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:13AM (#23637142)
Then those Asian and Middle Eastern countries are welcome to put up statues for those people. Nobody is stopping them.

Would you like to give an example to back up your claim though? There is no statue in the US celebrating somebody for discovering the number zero, or gunpowder, or paper, or anything else I can think of that was brought over to the West.

If you're saying we should never celebrate anybody that builds on the achievements of others, well then we shouldn't celebrate anything in science at all. All discovery and progress builds on the work of those that came before us.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by cyberlurker on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:41PM (#23636663)
I would argue that the level of success and contribution despite racism, which is a significant hurdle, makes it so that nothing is being inflated.

Also I get your point that at NASA and in the USA we have mostly white scientist until recently, but I take issue with your statement about the majority of scientific achievements.

Historically there are thousands upon thousands of Arab and Chinese scientific achievements, to name a few cultures that aren't white. I don't think that is what you meant though.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Thorentis on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:17AM (#23637157)
Why should the US put up statues of people that weren't not from the United States? Yes, there were plenty of scientific achievements in centuries gone by. But there is a big difference between not putting up statues of Chinese-Americans, and not putting up statues of people from ancient China. Those are two completely incomparable celebrations of success. There will be many people from thousands of years ago who made discoveries who we will never know about. That's not the point here.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by starpilot on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:05AM (#23636795)
Columbus didn't discover anything, or claim to, accurately at least. He went to his death thinking he'd found passage to India. He was also responsible for genocide.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by guerrilla on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:20PM (#23636556)
> That's because the majority of scientific achievements to date, have been by white men.

That's because everyone else was excluded. To overcome this pervasive and hostile environment takes exceptional ability.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Thorentis on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:21PM (#23636563)
Then solve the exclusion problem. Don't pretend it has already been solved by naming things after black people. It's like taking a painkiller and thinking your broken arm is fixed. Fix the problem, not the symptom.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by philistine on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:27PM (#23636587)
That is one important way you fix the problem, by honouring again and again the few examples of minority success.

Stop trying to prevent black people from receiving praise.

Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Thorentis on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:29PM (#23636597)
I hope you're joking. There is nothing more dishonoring and patronizing than to change the goal posts for somebody, just because of their race.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by starpilot on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:06AM (#23636802)
Speaking from your vast experience as a POC, I'm sure. I guess you'd be ok if I spoke for white people?
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by Thorentis on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:22AM (#23637189)
Yeah, I'm okay with other people having opinions. Please share yours rather than telling people who can and can't have one.
Re:NASA names headquarters after first Black female engineer... by guerrilla on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:13AM (#23636828)
One can do both, like we do with most diseases.