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Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by intsunny on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:09AM (#23628032)
If we punish respected organizations (of any kind) for every gaffe, we would not have any left.

In an era where the journalists are more under attack than ever, we might want to remember it is easier to tear things down than build them up.

Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by Veen on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:39AM (#23628356)
What about gaffes like the 1619 Project, the shortcomings and errors of which the NYT steadfastly refused to correct in the face of criticisms from historians. At a certain point, when the gaffes all line up in one direction, one might reasonably suspect an underlying motive.
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by ciarannolan on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:41AM (#23628371)
What were some of the issues with the 1619 Project?
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by solarwind on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:56AM (#23628538)
The main thesis of the 1619 project was that the colonists decided to declare their independence from Britain because they wanted to protect the institution of slavery. This is categorically false according to actual historians, and so the NYT had to issue a correction (some 7 months later). None of the leading scholars of the whole period from the Revolution to the Civil War were consulted on the project, yet now it is being taught in some public schools
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by ciarannolan on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:14AM (#23628801)
Thanks. I guess I could have spent a few minutes reading the wiki, which has a pretty good section on it.

>The 1619 Project has been criticized by some American historians, including historians of the American Revolution Gordon Wood[6] and Sean Wilentz,[43] and Civil War experts Richard Carwardine[5] and James McPherson.[7] McPherson stated in an interview that he was "disturbed" by the project's "unbalanced, one-sided account, which lacked context and perspective on the complexity of slavery, which was clearly, obviously, not an exclusively American institution, but existed throughout history." McPherson continued, "slavery in the United States was only a small part of a larger world process that unfolded over many centuries. And in the United States, too, there was not only slavery but also an antislavery movement."[7] Historian James Oakes criticized Hannah-Jones's assertion that "Anti-black racism runs in the very DNA of this country."[44]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_1619_Project#Criticism

Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by Veen on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:05AM (#23628654)
> yet now it is being taught in some public schools

That's the real problem. Newspapers get things wrong all the time. There's a conversation, people put forth their views pro and anti, and everyone makes up their own mind. But making a newspaper story that has come under fire from a huge number of respectable scholars part of the school curriculum for children is nakedly ideological.

Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by catalogia on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:22AM (#23628905)
I think/hope everybody recognizes that mistakes happen. In this particular case I think it goes beyond a mere mistake. Some points to consider: The 1619 Project refers not merely to "a newspaper story". Originally it was 100 page magazine with ten essays, a variety of poems and stories, etc. It has since become an ongoing multimedia project. Secondly, as mentioned above, the NYTs has not been particularly responsive to criticism from actual historians.
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by cmdshiftf4 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @12:53PM (#23630530)
> In this particular case I think it goes beyond a mere mistake.

I think that supports another point made above:

>At a certain point, when the gaffes all line up in one direction, one might reasonably suspect an underlying motive.

The NYT seems to be beyond "gaffes" at this point, and be entirely focused on promoting their ideology.

Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by DanBC on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:20AM (#23628890)
A balanced and detail discussion is here: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/06/1619-proje...
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by ciarannolan on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @12:55PM (#23630564)
That's a great read. Thanks.
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by Veen on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:02AM (#23628619)
Curiously, the World Socialist Website has some of the best content about this:

- https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/11/28/wood-n28.html

- https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/11/18/oake-n18.html

Glenn Loury and John McWhorter have spoken about 1619 shortcomings at length:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWQmzgiKXQ

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xym3kFuBX3Y

As have many historians of the period:

- https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/174140

Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by WillPostForFood on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:37AM (#23628335)
A “gaffe” is an unintentional mistake - oops, silly me. The New York Times outing people isn’t a gaffe, it is a hit job.
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by greatwhitenorth on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:49AM (#23628460)
How is NYTimes different than any for-profit business? They write what they write to get eyeballs. Just because they say "news media" doesn't mean they write truth. Some journalists may be under attack because they write lies and half-truths. Of course, they will portray it as the whole press is under attack.
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by throwaway_1512 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:11AM (#23628061)
These are not journalists, mostly blogger and quite likely just twitter addicts.
Re:Ad Boycott of Facebook Keeps Growing by bzb3 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:20AM (#23628147)
Nobody has talked about punishing respected organisations, just the New York Times.