In Poland, the catholic church and the "conservatives" still work hard at enforcing the old barbaric gender stereotypes, but they get little traction among the educated population.
What I meant is that things are good, but the church and conservatives are hard at work, trying to make them worse.
This sort of thing changes one funeral at the time. Fortunately younger people in Poland tend to be considerably smarter about such things than their parents ever were, though there are of course also still people in that generation that are dominated by the church.
The strange thing for me in the US is that the left doesn't seem bothered by it. They are usually all up to point out arbitrary social constructs but this isn't an issue for them? Am I missing something?
My mother was an LLL Leader for 35 years, and is a founding member of Breastfeeding USA.
Remember that this was a perception of stigmatisation, not necessarily an actual stigmatised response.
Personally, I don't think people would bat an eye at a mother pumping milk in their car. Among all of my various acquaintances of every stripe, I can't imagine any of the caring, and I've never once in my life ever heard anyone say anything about it.
Once, a mother was 'open breastfeeding' in the middle of a busy restaurant, I didn't say anything or think much about it, but I thought it was odd she was flouting her bare breast smack in the middle of a busy restaurant, I thought a hint of discretion, like a blanket, or being at the corner table facing a wall would be appropriate. I mean, we are 'eating'. I feel as though this woman was perhaps trying to 'make a point'. Not that I really care.
But I just can't see how anyone would be upset or even noticing someone pumping breastmilk in their car or wherever as long as there's a shade of discretion. Even if someone might 'bat an eye' they still probably don't care.
I don't doubt the authors personal feelings one bit, but that someone feels there is a stigma does not necessarily mean there is.
Maybe this is a stupid question, but why is any hint of discretion needed at all?
What is the problem with an uncovered breast and baby eating?
Is it for example that you feel excited from seeing a breast, and don't like that happening in a restaurant?
Or maybe it feels weird with people slightly undressed, in the same way as you might think it was weird if, say, a man (not woman) didn't wear a t-shirt at all?
Or is it that you think it's somehow a tiny bit dirty with babies and them eating, maybe drooling or sth like that?
Or sth else?
Do you really need to ask though?
When there's a topless woman in the middle of a restaurant, 99% of people are going to feel something is off.
There's a not-so-subtle difference between 'breastfeeding' and 'I'm going to leave my boobs hanging out while I set my baby down and get something out of my bag'
If you were in a restaurant, and someone was dangling their breasts for everyone to see (even a man for that matter) it would seem really odd.
I've seen women breastfeeding in public (airplanes, cafes) countless times, and I don't think anyone ever batted an eye, but there was always a shade of discretion.
A woman dangling her breasts around in restaurant, on the other hand, is a different thing entirely.
It's kind of ridiculous that we have a social protocol wherein nudity would not be appropriate in a given context, but then because of some specific need, that this protocol goes away. No. Nobody minds at all that someone is breastfeeding but people do mind fairly obvious nudity.
And I really don't think there's a soul in California who cares that a woman is breastfeeding or pumping milk in their car.
I don't personally condone eating nude in public in a restaurant, but there is a broad spectrum of ambivalence towards nudity. For instance, plenty of europe is fine with mixed sex nude saunas and beaches. And the whole thing is pretty asexual.
If you feel ashamed or self conscious or indecent topless on the beach, or even in a same sex changing room, it's probably not a stretch to think you may feel shame breastfeeding on the side of the road in a car.
Now you will have prudes and exhibitionists in any society but the window of normality is going to be a function of what the environment dictates. And iirc being topless on a beach in the US is illegal, whereas no one will blink in Spain or France at a topless woman (except the American/Brit on holiday)
But this is learned behaviour - most children don't care about being dressed or not
When thinking about it, personally, although I'm a man, I'd feel a bit socially anxious / worried about what others would think, if I was without a t-shirt in a restaurant.
> learned behaviour - most children don't care about being dressed or not
(Actually I cared "a lot" and was disappointed when I had to start wearing bath shorts)
We can all do better, and even where things seem good we need to always be vigilant.
Essentially every person will piss burp fart and poop. And almost every person has one of two genitals. (EDIT and our biological parents will have one of each). And almost every mother will feed their baby with their breasts.
And yet we have become so detached from the animal part of our identity and so caught up in some abstract values that we get squeamish seeing and talking about these things.
We have much to learn on this front from our scandi and dutch friends who have chilled the F out.