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Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Friday June 19, 2020 @07:22PM (#23579895)
While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling.

The majority of them are companion apps for physical products/memberships for which the rules around in-app purchases do not apply: Tesla, Soho House, Wells Fargo, Blue Cross / Blue Shield, WeWork.

Github has a free tier and doesn't require a paying membership to use.

Netflix is a digital content app for which there is a specific exemption under rule 3.1.3(a).

Bloomberg and Salesforce might also fall under the 3.1.3(a) exemption for "access to professional databases", I'm not sure.

App Store Connect is their own app. Apple's apps have always been able to use private APIs and do other things the rest of us can't.

The only other app in this list that is actually similar to Hey in terms of product type and monetization is Fastmail. (And it looks like Fastmail was recently asked to add IAP to their app as well.)

The rules around in-app purchases have been well known for a long time (by iOS devs at least, clearly not by the general public or even tech people).

Releasing an app that does not follow the rules and then publicly complaining when it is inevitably rejected is starting to seem more like a guerrilla marketing tactic more than anything else. (And a clever one too, I don't think yet-another-email-app would have gotten nearly the same amount of press coverage that this has.)

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by MrStonedOne on Friday June 19, 2020 @07:56PM (#23580169)
Its not a list of "exceptions".

Part of the whole point is the relation to the quote at the start.

In every one of those apps signing up "doesn't work" which goes against the stated goal of ensuring that users can download the app and expect it work. How can it work if you can't even sign into it because you can't sign up for it and they can't even tell you how to.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Friday June 19, 2020 @08:15PM (#23580289)
Except the app was not rejected for failing to meet the standards of the quote. It was rejected for failing to meet the App Store review guidelines.

This whole website is a strawman built against the false claim that you're not allowed to require a login to access your app, which has never actually been true.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by lern_too_spel on Friday June 19, 2020 @09:55PM (#23580861)
He is arguing that the rule does not match the intent.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by MrStonedOne on Saturday June 20, 2020 @01:36AM (#23581968)
Except its not about rather or not the app was rejected

It's about the policy creating the trend of apps that don't work in that you can't sign up on them.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Saturday June 20, 2020 @02:29AM (#23582204)
Except the policy doesn't create the trend. The Tesla app won't work if you don't own a Tesla. The Wells Fargo app won't work if you don't have a Wells Fargo account. These apps have external requirements by their very nature, the App Store policy does not change that.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by MrStonedOne on Saturday June 20, 2020 @03:22AM (#23582399)
Having a wells fargo bank account is not the same as having a wells fargo online user account.

You get the first, then sign up on the website or android app.

Try again.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Saturday June 20, 2020 @03:56AM (#23582525)
You can't sign up for a Wells Fargo online user account without first having a Wells Fargo bank account. Therefore there is an external requirement.

Update: I just double checked. The Wells Fargo Android app and Wells Fargo iOS apps behave identically. You are immediately presented with a login screen upon launch. There is no signup flow inside either app but you can click a link that opens a web browser with a link to the registration page.

Your claim that the App Store policy is responsible for this trend does not hold up, considering the Android version is not subject to the same policy but behaves the exact same way anyway.

Update 2: Checked a few more apps. The Android versions of Github and Fastmail don't allow you to sign up in the app either. You are only presented with a login screen just like the iOS versions.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by 411111111111111 on Saturday June 20, 2020 @05:27AM (#23582844)
They're likely all webview apps with a single codebase though. If they remove it for Apple, it would likely be gone for Android as well.

Don't remember if they had a link for signups before though, just pointing out that you can't deduce that point from given facts.

(Nor is there proof for the original thesis, it's all speculation at this point)

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Saturday June 20, 2020 @06:32PM (#23587976)
Fair enough, but it's not like they couldn't provide a more direct signup option in the Android version if they wanted to. The fact that they didn't is telling, IMO.

To circle back to the original point, blaming Apple for the "trend" of not being able to sign up inside of apps is clearly nonsensical.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by gruez on Friday June 19, 2020 @07:27PM (#23579938)
>While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling.

Yeah, the first few items on the list were relatively convincing, but the convincing-ness takes a nosedive further down the list. I mean, who in their right mind would compare hey to a companion app for a car?

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by SpaceRaccoon on Friday June 19, 2020 @07:40PM (#23580036)
It's not about that. It's about the VP's explanation being disingenuous. Apple's issue isn't that the app doesn't work, despite their claim. It's that they can't collect money. They should just be honest.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Friday June 19, 2020 @08:51PM (#23580516)
I agree that's a crappy explanation by the VP but that's not the actual reason for the rejection.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by etse on Saturday June 20, 2020 @12:42AM (#23581730)
I too think it’s a poor response from the head of the App Store but we shouldn’t pretend to think we know the “actual” reason that much better because we are given a link to the ever-changing App Store regulations webpage.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Saturday June 20, 2020 @02:35AM (#23582228)
The actual reason is the app does not follow the rules for in-app purchases. This hasn't really been in question. Anyone who has been an iOS dev for more than a year or two will be familiar with the App Store review guidelines.

Are the rules overly restrictive? Yes. Due they place an unfair burden on third party developers? Probably. But let's not pretend they are a mystery.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by m463 on Saturday June 20, 2020 @02:12AM (#23582133)
You can purchase upgrades for your car via the tesla app.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by wpm on Friday June 19, 2020 @08:11PM (#23580260)
HEY is a digital content app too. Rich e-mails contain content, and are digital.

Everything I look at on my smartphone is digital content.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Friday June 19, 2020 @08:16PM (#23580297)
Not by the definition given in section 3.1.3(a) of the App Store review guidelines.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by rydre on Friday June 19, 2020 @10:18PM (#23580957)
Apple's trashy guidelines need to go to the dustbin of history.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by realtalk_sp on Friday June 19, 2020 @08:21PM (#23580330)
Wow it's almost like Apple designed their rules so that most of the key businesses in this world don't pay an insane 30% of their revenue to Apple. Almost like Apple say...doesn't want to discourage important institutions from providing services Apple's customers might expect from iOS. Crazy coincidence. /s
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Friday June 19, 2020 @08:50PM (#23580512)
I mean, 1) why is anyone surprised by this? 2) If you make an app that sells cat videos you would also qualify for the digital content exemption, "key business" or not.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by DangitBobby on Saturday June 20, 2020 @08:35AM (#23583602)
What makes you think anyone is surprised? Do you think anger or frustration requires surprise?
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Saturday June 20, 2020 @06:30PM (#23587954)
Why would anyone be angry or frustrated that "Apple designed their rules so most of the key businesses in this world don't pay an insane 30% of their revenue to Apple"?
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by DangitBobby on Saturday July 04, 2020 @01:46AM (#23730416)
Because the reality is that smaller players are getting fleeced in this scheme. By design. And bigger players don't have to play the same ball game. By design. Not surprising, just more of the same seen everywhere, and very frustrating.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by oleics on Saturday June 20, 2020 @08:06PM (#23588531)
Maybe because of the word "insane"?
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by nodamage on Saturday June 20, 2020 @09:20PM (#23588878)
Re-read the quote and note the word "don't" which flips the meaning of the entire sentence.
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by thatMurcia99 on Friday June 19, 2020 @09:24PM (#23580692)
Why is Netflix different?

Sending email is distribution of “digital content”.

This old game of wobbly semantics to describe “organizing electrons in silicon” is pretty much done isn’t it?

Society has hit an information entropy. Where the masses get one message “austerity” while the elites tirelessly bike shed the rules, struggling to maintain their old epistemology as they die off from natural causes, which is extinguishing their norms instead.

Varoufakis is right: leadership of the old generation is out of net new ideas and has us nickle and diming old ones to keep up the ruse.

Their only endgame, which isn’t driven by more than an intuition, is keep the hierarchy story looking like it did decades ago.

This is just biological survival instinct. There’s absolutely no real reason to carve up “digital content” into more than electrons zipping through silicon, except for financial Machiavellianism.

Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by hejja on Friday June 19, 2020 @10:25PM (#23580985)
what a difficult comment to read
Re:You download the app and it doesn’t work by reaperducer on Friday June 19, 2020 @08:53PM (#23580534)
Releasing an app that does not follow the rules and then publicly complaining when it is inevitably rejected is starting to seem more like a guerrilla marketing tactic more than anything else.

And be sure to do it right before WWDC. We've seen this play before.