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Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by jakub_g on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @06:36AM (#23549873)
> why anyone should use the AppStore as a distribution channel to a huge market and completely circumvent Apple's cut

There's no other option. It's not possible to sideload apps. Developers are obliged to use appstore.

Regarding payments, the developers are not only obliged to have a way to pay with Apple (would be okay), they are obliged to not have another way.

Your argument is "I like pepsi, therefore I'm fine with the fact that no one can buy coca-cola".

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by ryanwaggoner on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:38AM (#23550646)
And yours is like “I don’t like Pepsi but this restaurant I like only serves Pepsi, so I want the government to force them to serve Coca-Cola, instead of just going to another restaurant.”
Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by peterwoerner on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:44AM (#23550701)
No its more like, “I don’t like Pepsi but all the restaurants in town only serves Pepsi, so I want the government to force them to serve Coca-Cola, because I can't just go to another restaurant.”
Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by ryanwaggoner on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:53AM (#23550761)
What is the “town” supposed to be here? People? People with smartphones? Nah, can’t be those, because you’re ignoring Android and the open web as alternatives to Apple. So I assume you mean “people with iPhones”.

I always find it amusing when the boundaries for monopoly are drawn around the set of the customers of a company. By that logic, every company is a monopoly! United Airlines has a monopoly on every customers that flies in one of their airplanes. How dare they only offer a certain brand of snack! They’re extorting their customers who have no choice!

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by wayneftw on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @09:16AM (#23550961)
Teens in the US are a market unto themselves.

The iPhone has somewhere between 80-90% market share with them.

Even outside of teens, they're at close to 50% and you don't need a strict majority in order to have control over the market. That's why, legally, you don't need a strict majority to be considered a monopoly.

Next.

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by ryanwaggoner on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:42PM (#23558575)
None of that is how anti-trust works.
Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by wayneftw on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @09:25PM (#23558813)
Yes, it is.

You can read about it here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_power#Measurement

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by ryanwaggoner on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:07AM (#23561239)
U.S. courts almost never consider a firm to possess market power if it has a market share of less than 50 percent.

And as much as you might wish it to be so, anti-trust courts are not going to take seriously an argument that Apple is a monopoly because you find a demographic (teens) that they have a larger market share in. Again, you can easily slice and dice markets by customer demographics to make any company a monopoly.

Next.

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by wayneftw on Thursday June 18, 2020 @11:42AM (#23564118)
Incorrect. They’ve already lost a preliminary antitrust suit.

They can absolutely be sued for this. Look it up.

Here: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/supreme-court...

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by ryanwaggoner on Friday June 19, 2020 @11:23AM (#23575382)
Apple Inc. v. Pepper did not cover what you think it did. The Supreme Court ruled that consumers had standing to sue for antitrust violations with regard to how Apple regulates the App Store because they pay fees for apps in that store.

It has nothing to do with your bizarre argument that because Apple has greater than 50% market share in the demographic of "teens", they're a monopoly and the government must step in. Does that also apply for a company who has a monopoly on "27-year-old web designers in Brooklyn who own a dog"?

I'm done with this conversation. You clearly have an axe to grind against Apple, and it's leading you to avoid arguing in good faith.

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by wayneftw on Friday June 19, 2020 @02:19PM (#23577338)
> The Supreme Court ruled that consumers had standing to sue for antitrust violations...

Thank you for acknowledging the exact point that I just made?

> It has nothing to do with your bizarre argument ...

I didn't say that it was because of my argument. My demographic argument was simply a point of interest. And actually, you can disregard it and still know that Apple is the largest single manufacturer of smartphones in the US and they’ll soon surpass the 50% mark based on their trajectory and the new $399 iPhone. Samsung is a distant second.

How bizarre is that??

> I'm done with this conversation. You clearly have an axe to grind against Apple...

Pffft. Okay. Why shouldn't I have an axe to grind? And while we're at it - you're clearly apologizing for Apple where they deserve none. Defending a company that is basically the fucking China of tech with their Great Wall of bullshit isn't a real good look. You're going to be on the wrong side of history when this bears out.

But please, do stop arguing because nothing you say will make what Apple is doing right. Even if the law were on their side, which it's not, we'd have reason enough here to make new laws that target these essential devices with new regulations. So, change your attitude, get on the correct side and stop defending your favorite corporation.

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by jakub_g on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @09:13AM (#23550933)
In a big city you have 1000s of restaurants and surely you can find coke in some of them, without any regulation.

OTOH how many viable mobile platforms do you have? Whopping two (on the world scale). And one of them is not playing fairly. (Edit: And the other is not playing fairly either in some other aspects.)

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by dustinmoris on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @12:52PM (#23553615)
Your analogy is wrong.

This is a corrected version.

I like pepsi (Visa Credit card), others like other drinks, such as coca-cola (Amex Credit card), or Sprite (Mastercard Debit card), or Fanta (Prepaid card), etc.

I want to walk into a shop which allows me to drink any of the above legitimate drinks, but nothing dodgy, such as that toxic brew which someone has prepared in their dirty garage which makes people throw up (e.g. Bitcoin). So instead of having to verify each drink myself I want to go to a shop where this has been done for me by a gatekeeper. If that gatekeeper forces all payment options through their own gate (Apple Pay) in order to make sure that there is no funny business going on, then I am 100% supportive of it. You can still have you coca cola if you want and I my pepsi. Just don't ask me to drink something which looks like pepsi but could be some other dog shit (allow other payment gateways which are not apple pay and all sorts of dodge shit can happen then).

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by FirefoxIsSlow on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @07:55AM (#23550330)
Make a web app?

That's what I do to avoid giving Apple money.

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by rydre on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:00AM (#23550359)
Apple deliberately hinders Progressive Web Applications on iOS Safari, effectively stifling innovation. Look at how many requests are there on WebKit to implement many of the features/API's required.

They don't even allow competing browser engines. Chrome, Firefox etc on iOS are just wrappers around Safari.

Re:Dear Apple: Here’s How to Stop the Antitrust Investigations by dhimes on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @02:27PM (#23554876)
This is where I think they might be legally vulnerable, if anywhere. Especially since Jobs initially answers the shocked reaction of 30% by "it's no big deal everybody is going to make web apps anyway."