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Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by travisoneill1 on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @08:55AM (#23538555)
How else are you going to keep the Asians out?
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by seibelj on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @10:49AM (#23539757)
You are probably being facetious, but my wife is Vietnamese and her parents were boat people who fled the communists, didn't speak any English and had no money, then her dad got a job washing dishes, learned English at night, got into college, then got into medical school, started a chain of clinics, and retired a millionaire. You would not believe how much they despise current "progressive" politics and speaking with them about politics is basically impossible. They and their community / family follow what is happening with things like Harvard and partially as a result they are die-hard Trump supporters (among other things like their belief in religion, police, etc.).

I do not agree with all of these opinions, I am just telling you how this community, which is mostly still poor and not "model minority", views a lot of what is coming out of elite institutions in the name of progress and equality.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by malandrew on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:08AM (#23540015)
Great comment. What's not appreciated is that Asians in the US have the greatest Gini coefficient of any racial group in the US: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/07/12/income-inequality...

John McWhorter made a comment in a Reason interview that affirmative action really should be about socioeconomic status and not race. Back in the day race would have been a highly correlative proxy for income and wealth, but that it is becoming increasingly less predictive and advantaging middle and upper class minorities when today they almost no meaningful disadvantages relative to their white and asian peers of the same socioeconomic class.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @12:02PM (#23540745)
See what happens when East Asians from a poor background try to take advantage of affirmative action programs.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by pnw_hazor on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:42AM (#23540482)
The Vietnamese side of my family are refugees too, two MDs, 2 engineers, and one CS professor. Not bad for growing up in public housing and on food stamps.

They see Communism rising in America and support Trump.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by cousin_it on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @06:10PM (#23544905)
Many Russian/Jewish emigrants (including me) feel similarly. To anyone who grew up under communism, the current thought climate is alarming. It's hard to explain to Western folks.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by travisoneill1 on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:02AM (#23539936)
Why wouldn't they feel that way? As bad as Trump may be, he isn't trying to keep their kids from following the same successful path.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by user982 on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:17AM (#23540140)
The same successful path that begins with the US welcoming non-white, non-English-speaking refugees from countries they've bombed? Trump is not actively on the record against all of that?
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by magicsmoke on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:23AM (#23540215)
If they're refugees from South Vietnam, they probably wish the US kept bombing so they didn't have to flee the communists.

Hell, if they were well off in South Vietnam before the communists came, it just goes to show that if your family had the mental foundations necessary for success, even if you hit rock bottom you still have the attitude to climb back up.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by fortran77 on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:15AM (#23540117)
Exactly. They had similar quotas to keep Jews out several generations ago.

> Certain private universities, most notably Harvard, introduced policies which effectively placed a quota on the number of Jews admitted to the university. According to historian David Oshinsky, on writing about Jonas Salk, "Most of the surrounding medical schools (Cornell, Columbia, Pennsylvania, and Yale) had rigid quotas in place. In 1935 Yale accepted 76 applicants from a pool of 501. About 200 of those applicants were Jewish and only five got in." He notes that Dean Milton Winternitz's instructions were remarkably precise: "Never admit more than five Jews, take only two Italian Catholics, and take no blacks at all."[16] As a result, Oshinsky added, "Jonas Salk and hundreds like him" enrolled in New York University instead.[17] Physicist and Nobel laureate Richard P. Feynman was turned away from Columbia College in the 1930s and went to MIT instead. See also Numerus clausus in the United States.

(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quota )

Today it's "too many asians"

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by devmunchies on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @01:05PM (#23541433)
Yeah but not anymore. There is a higher jewish population at harvard (~28%) than non-jewish whites (~22%) despite non-jewish whites making up 60% of the population of the US and jews making up less than 2% of the population. No skin off my nose since I went to a mormon school in Utah.

There is clearly an anti-white, anti-asian agenda at these top schools now.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by fortran77 on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @02:05PM (#23542129)
Only 6% of the 2020 class at Harvard self-reported as Jewish. See https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-vanishi...
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by dartdartdart on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @03:32PM (#23543111)
Anti-asian for sure, probably not as much anti-white since white applicants can get lower academic scores than Asian people and still get accepted. Discriminating against a minority that makes up only 5% of the population is ridiculous.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by bradlys on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @04:18PM (#23543562)
You'd have a stronger argument if that 5% was still "only 5%" of the colleges. But, it's closer to 15-30% of the student body. That's true at most top colleges across the country AFAIK. When you're getting close to 5-6x the national rate and nearly a third of the university, it's gotta be worth noting, right? No different than any other demographic - I'd hope.

I'm for fair admissions and I'd hope race would not be a factor in admissions - only personal experiences/circumstance. Something that would level the floor a bit more to allow for people of less privileged backgrounds to shine and allow for real diversity of thought into the university environment. That said, it won't likely ever happen. My experience of a school with a 30% Asian student body was not great for many reasons but one reason was how hard it was to make friends. I did not make almost any Asian friends because most of the Asian student body was a very insular group of people. I spoke about this with Asian coworkers/peers who outwardly acknowledged it at the university. Now, I work with Asian coworkers who openly express their interest in being with Asians more than other races. I don't know if that same mentality is as abundant across other groups but imagine going to a school where 30% of the class refuses to interact with you. It does not make for a great student body.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by malandrew on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @04:52PM (#23543948)
> When you're getting close to 5-6x the national rate and nearly a third of the university, it's gotta be worth noting, right?

It's worth noting and emulating. Punishing success is the path to mediocrity. Instead other groups should take note and ask themselves "what should our community be doing so that we can also emulate the success that that group has had?"

Any solution that doesn't involve trying to trying to get every group to emulate the success of the groups doing it right will eventually lower standards.

There is a soft bigotry in low expectations.

https://1776unites.com/featured-essays/the-1619-project-perp...

I'm not Jewish, but I have nothing but profound respect for that community because they have such great values that they are consistently crushing it and helping one another succeed. Just take the absolute atrocity many of them suffered in WWII and yet 75 years later, many of those that had everything stripped from them have succeeded better than probably any other community would have given the same adversity.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by bradlys on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @05:44PM (#23544614)
You're ignoring what I spoke about and sidelining it into a discussion about how we should want to emulate Asian culture because it has lead to success for them.

You're ignoring how problematic that culture is. It isn't a culture that can be emulated across the board because it's inherently exclusionary. It's not that these groups of people who have risen to the top are helping everyone - they're only helping their own. How should that be a desirable thing unless you're also selfish and discriminatory?

If anyone is only helping those of their own race rather than helping anyone - it's a problematic culture. (And - inherently - racist)

College is a zero-sum game. You either get in or you don't, and there is a limited amount of space. It would be nice if everyone treated each other as a cohesive whole rather than splitting up in groups as you've labeled and desire people to do. That attitude is what creates more divisiveness and tribalism.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by malandrew on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @07:42PM (#23545731)
You're looking at this way too narrowly.

The dichotomy isn't between helping people outside your community or within your community.

That dichotomy I'm highlighting is between having a culture of helping one another or not having that culture.

The communities that aren't helping those within their community, typically aren't helping people outside their community either. There are plenty of cities and neighborhoods in this country where there isn't much community service, participation in the community and taking pride in helping your community succeed relative to other communities out there. I grew up in a predominantly Jewish town as a kid. The level of involvement from the parents in the school system was off the charts. Since moving away from that community, I've never once seen anyplace else that came even close to that level of civic involvement.

It doesn't even have to be community based on race. It can be as simple as volunteering in your neighborhood or city.

Communities that grow rich have a culture of service to one another whether that community is delineated along racial or geographical lines or if that community is global. The size of the group or whether there is exclusion or not is orthogonal to my point. This culture change is easiest to begin at home and within your community.

One of the big differences I've noticed between liberals and conservatives is that with liberals, community starts with the world, then moves to the country, then the state, then the county, then the city/town, then the neighborhood, then the family. With conservatives it's the opposite. Community and obligation to one another begins with the family and moves to the neighborhood, then the city/town, then county, then state, then country and then world.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by devmunchies on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @05:14PM (#23544223)
It could be said that their adversity is because they are so good at “helping one another succeed.” Success breeds resentment.

Although, I agree. I just want all cultures to thrive. However, Whites doing this would be called out for nepotism and labeled supremacists in their own countries. You don’t see this reaction in Japan, Israel, Mexico, etc.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by turtlecloud on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @08:19PM (#23546082)
That’s what most minorities feel like most of time lol. Imagine being a Latino guy in a school that majority white.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by dartdartdart on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @03:30PM (#23543080)
Someone should add this shameful piece to the Harvard wikipedia page as a main section. History will repeat itself if they hide it. I learned of this recently, the President of the college said something along the lines of if we accept x amount of Jewish people then other people won't want to come to the college anymore. Disgusting.

I'm not a conservative, but I agree with this piece by the American Conservative: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of...

Notice how Jewish admissions tanked after the college found a socially acceptable anti-semitic policy.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by eli_gottlieb on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @09:21AM (#23538820)
By throwing them in a gladiatorial death-match with the Jewish applicants, of course. The winner has an athletic character, and is therefore real Harvard material!
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by selimthegrim on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @12:57PM (#23553692)
This is like that story where Dershowitz drops into Stephen Jay Gould’s class and asks the students how to deal with a pushy Jewish mother who insists her rejected kid is Harvard material
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by ylem on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @10:57AM (#23539874)
I'm a bit confused, but isn't this a one year response to the effects of Covid? I saw that there were difficulties even with AP exams this year.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by travisoneill1 on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @09:13AM (#23550936)
Nothing to do with COVID. Harvard systematically discriminates against Asian applicants by giving them lower "personality scores" than other races. There is a big lawsuit about this going on.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by jerf on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @09:09AM (#23538715)
Sarcastically phrased, but it's the real answer. The colleges need to shed objective measures so they can continue their social programs unimpeded by any objective standards that might reveal their increasingly obvious biases.

If you want to get into Harvard, I recommend striving to demonstrate greater fealty to the hardest of hard left-wing ideals than your fellow applicants, as that will become the real criterion for admission as fast as they feel like they can make it.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by mauflows on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @10:36AM (#23539598)
Couldn't diversity be considered an objectively good thing to strive to have?

Anecdotally, I went to a technical school but some of my biggest shifts in perspective came from interacting with liberal arts and minority students.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by gizmo686 on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @10:43AM (#23539678)
Yes. The legal justification for affirmative action getting an exception to anti-discrimination laws is that a diverse student body improves the quality of eduaction for all students; so there is a compelling interest to discriminate.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by oh_sigh on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @01:11PM (#23541494)
It certainly doesn't improve the quality of education of the students who were rejected in favor of someone with a different color skin.