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Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by dgrin91 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @12:38AM (#23473963)
I think this is a great example of people taking virtue signaling to points of stupidity. Master-slave being problematic is something I can get behind, but git's master branch isn't even referencing the master-slave analogy.

What about people who are really good at something? Should we never call them masters? Just experts? I'm now a chess GrandExpert? I have an Experts degree?

You're burning a lot of political capital to change things that really don't matter instead of things that do.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by derivativethrow on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @12:49AM (#23474029)
I appreciate the cogency of your broader point, but please reconsider using the terminology "virtue signaling."

When one person accuses another of virtue signaling, even implicitly, there are typically only two possibilities:

1. They hold such a cynical worldview that it's reasonable and coherent to criticize someone else for attempting to publicly advocate for what they honestly believe to be right, or

2. They believe the other person is not being honest in their advocacy, and more importantly that they should call the person's integrity into question by opening that up for discussion.

When you label another individual's behavior as virtue signaling, you forcibly shift the focus of discussion on that person's behavior and identity rather than the thing they're advocating. This can have a chilling effect on people voicing their opinions with honesty and authenticity. Likewise if an idea if worth critiquing, it should merit criticism on its own without calling into question its advocates' motives.

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, I'm just calling out the use of the term.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by SilasX on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:08AM (#23474142)
I use "virtue signaling" for something like:

3. Advocacy that mainly serves to make the advocate sound virtuous rather than substantively address the difficult aspects of a difficult tradeoff or help to wisely deploy resources in a way that will make progress on a problem.

It's distinct from your 1 in that it accepts that people can exist who legitimately care about improving the world.

It's distinct from your 2 in that it doesn't assert the person's advocacy is dishonest (or otherwise not heartfelt), only that their specific contributions are unhelpful or present a bad framing.

Example of a useful difference that 3 highlights:

Virtue signaling: "I just think we should help everyone wherever we can." -> suggests that the speaker is particularly noble while also setting a herculean standard for how to live one's life. (Really? Every single moment?)

Not virtue signaling: "As a rule of thumb, you should give about 10% of your net income to charitable causes, since this is historically feasible, and mainly would force you to cut back in ways that have disproportionately high utility for others. Any more than that is nice, but is more than I can legitimately ask." -> recognizes upper bounds in what they expect out of others, and what might be feasible or excessive.

Naturally, most advocacy lasts more than two sentences, but that gives the general idea.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by bawolff on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:19AM (#23474206)
I feel like the term virtue signaling is used in a way that almost always implies some implication of insinceerity, i.e. they are doing it for popularity/upvotes/etc and not out of moral concern. As such i agree with the other poster that it is in essence an ad hominem, although usually its not solely an ad hominem but combined with some argument that the advocacy is superficial or ineffective. (Although typically on the internet its a pretty weak argument most of the time)
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by scarmig on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:15AM (#23474184)
To me, writing off a stance as "virtue signaling" is the same kind of laziness as writing off a stance as coming from a "position of privilege": it may well be true, but rational debate requires assuming your debate partners came to their position through reasoned thought and honestly hold it.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by rumanator on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:24AM (#23474235)
> it may well be true, but rational debate

Rational debate is not the virtue signaler's goal or means. They just want to flaunt a "holier than thou" attitude while actually caring zero about the topic. Demanding that those targeted by virtual signaler's passive-agressive's attacks must not point out the virtue signaler's inherent dishonesty is like complaining that the targets must passively serve the the virtue signaler's desires without a hint of rational or objective thought, as if the only acceptable outcome of a virtue signaler's attack is getting the target to publicly recognize how the virtue signaler is so virtuous and that the world should follow his teachings, no matter how empty and inconsequent and self-aggrandizing they might be.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by seiferteric on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:11AM (#23474164)
Honestly I think the real chilling effect is from internet people patrolling an monitoring everyone's use of language and making sure people are only saying the "correct" words and ideas.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by derivativethrow on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @08:35AM (#23476375)
That's fair. Do you think I am causing one with this comment?
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by dgrin91 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @11:35AM (#23478247)
Yes.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by lmm on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:37AM (#23474296)
When someone suggests an action whose visibility is so far out of proportion to its efficacy, this should call their integrity into question. Whether consciously or otherwise, they are proposing to take advantage of the movement for their own personal benefit; we should view them with the same skepticism as someone suggesting that group funds should be used to renovate the meeting place, which they just happen to own.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by sethcohen95 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:10AM (#23474434)
I agree with your two possibilities (and there are more). What I'm not clear about is why you object to the use of the phrase for either of those reasons.

1. If someone genuinely believes something absurd to be right and reasonable, why are they above criticism? Ridicule is a very valuable and effective tool in maintaining social cohesion and resisting subversive methods that use absurd arguments that are unworthy of or incapable of being reasoned against.

2. This is far more straight forward. If we genuinely believe someone to be disingenuous in their advocacy of the absurd, should they not be called out on it? What responsibility do we have to earnestly engage with deliberate subversion? Identifying it and raising awareness of bad actors and trolls is a valid defence, potentially saving good people a lot of time, money, and heartache.

I'll conclude by saying that I believe your attempt to dissuade people from using "virtue signalling" to identify these behaviours is, itself, virtue signalling. I'm quite sure it would serve your sociopolitical objectives very well if all these people 'in the way' would stop noticing such behaviours.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by bawolff on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:11AM (#23474159)
It doesn't seem like you are objecting to the term so much as the idea it represents. If the original poster instead substituted in the meaning of that term, e.g. if they said instead "This is taking insincerly aligning yourself with socially progressive causes in a trivial fashion in order to gain social standing while avoiding taking a stand on things that matter,to an extreme"* I assume you would still want to object? If so you should object to what they are saying not how.

*The term virtue signaling seems to be used differently by different people, so not sure if that was a fair substitution of definition.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by seiferteric on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @12:40AM (#23473984)
Eliminate the Masters Degree!
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by dheera on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @12:49AM (#23474031)
And I always thought "Master" sounded more badass than "Doctor" ...
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by jerzyt on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @12:42AM (#23473992)
You beat me to it!
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by kevingadd on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @12:47AM (#23474022)
Many employers have general policy of not using potentially sensitive terminology in their codebases when there are good alternatives, whether it's "master" (could be master-slave, could be something else), "blacklist", etc. If it's easy to apply that policy you can just do it and then you never have to worry about whether an employee slipped a regrettable word choice into a string literal that a customer's going to see 6 months from now. It's nice to have options for doing this cheaply instead of doing a panic audit of your codebase and changing a bunch of stuff by hand.

Determining whether a given use of the word is appropriate requires context and careful consideration, and people already tend to have a bunch of work on their plates! For something like "master" I think it's reasonable to go "let's just not use it in our repos, there are alternatives", it's not erasing any useful nuance or meaning.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by dbsmith83 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:00AM (#23474099)
I disagree. Changing a word which could potentially offend someone even though it is not rooted in something offensive is exhausting and silly. People can find anything to be offended by. If someone is ignorant about the terminology, such as the 'master branch', then I would explain to them the history of the word. That is much easier than forcing everyone to change industry standard terminology with the bonus of conveying some knowledge.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by DaiPlusPlus on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:04AM (#23474121)
If you think “master” is problematic, try using the word “niggardly” in written conversation (never use it vocally, of course): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_n...
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by im3w1l on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:06AM (#23474127)
If you tell people which words they are allowed to speak based on programming convenience, then you will turn them into robots.

By the way did you know that the etymology of robot? Wikipedia has this to say

> The word robot was introduced to the public by the Czech interwar writer Karel Čapek in his play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots), published in 1920.[79] The play begins in a factory that uses a chemical substitute for protoplasm to manufacture living, simplified people called robots. The play does not focus in detail on the technology behind the creation of these living creatures, but in their appearance they prefigure modern ideas of androids, creatures who can be mistaken for humans. These mass-produced workers are depicted as efficient but emotionless, incapable of original thinking and indifferent to self-preservation. At issue is whether the robots are being exploited and the consequences of human dependence upon commodified labor (especially after a number of specially-formulated robots achieve self-awareness and incite robots all around the world to rise up against the humans).

> Karel Čapek himself did not coin the word. He wrote a short letter in reference to an etymology in the Oxford English Dictionary in which he named his brother, the painter and writer Josef Čapek, as its actual originator.[79]

> In an article in the Czech journal Lidové noviny in 1933, he explained that he had originally wanted to call the creatures laboři ("workers", from Latin labor). However, he did not like the word, and sought advice from his brother Josef, who suggested "roboti". The word robota means literally "corvée", "serf labor"

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by alwillis on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:47AM (#23474607)
Long before this article appeared, I was already renaming ‘master’ to ‘default’. The term ‘master’ has always felt out of place and unnecessary to me.

If anything, the article affirms my gut feeling when I first started using version control back in the day. It didn't occur to me someone else might feel similarly.

When creating a new repo using Mercurial, the default branch is called default, which always made more sense to me.

Interestingly enough, both Mercurial and Git were created by Linux kernel hackers to handle the Linux kernel source code after the Linux project could no longer use Bitkeeper. They were released 12 days apart in April 2005.

Just pointing out that certain things, even seemingly small things, are often assumed to be okay. And especially in team settings, people don't always feel comfortable speaking up or being that person.

Reminds me of the aphorism: There are two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by Chyzwar on Thursday June 11, 2020 @03:56PM (#23492735)
Master and default have different meaning. Master in git mean master record for other branches. In mercurial default is more applicable because common workflow is not branch based but change set.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by alwillis on Saturday June 13, 2020 @07:04PM (#23513605)
seeing all the pushback to the “rename the master branch” movement is disheartening. if renaming the branch makes even one current or future employee (or even an open source contributor feel more welcome!), why push back so hard on this?

https://twitter.com/vaidehijoshi/status/1271555823139876864?...

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by Chyzwar on Monday June 15, 2020 @03:44AM (#23524858)
Because not all uses of "master" have negative connotations. I can support renaming master-slave, but git is not such case. There is pushback because it creates massive amount of work for us without a good reason.

All CI/CD pipelines, scripts, tools. Integration fixes, regressions and failed deployments because branch was main not master.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by alwillis on Monday June 15, 2020 @11:06PM (#23535556)
Because not all uses of "master" have negative connotations. I can support renaming master-slave, but git is not such case.

Turns out that Git’s use of master decends from a use that is about master/slave: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/...

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by Chyzwar on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @04:49PM (#23543910)
Evidence you use come from Gnome mailing list where Gnome maintainers where discussing unrelated issue.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by alwillis on Saturday June 13, 2020 @04:50PM (#23512588)
It depends on the workflow. But Mercurial can be used just like Git when it comes to a branch-based workflow regardless of the underlying data model.

It could be argued that by default, Mercurial discourages rewriting history unless you really want to and you know what you’re doing.

So the definition of a ‘master’ branch is more applicable to Mercurial than it is to Git.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by dreary_dugong on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @12:55AM (#23474070)
While there was almost certainly no original malintent with the phrase 'master' in this context, it's a very small and relatively easy change to make to avoid hiccups down the road. Even if you don't agree that this is needed, I think it's clear that it's easier to just rename it now than it would be to explain to someone a few months down the road the deep historical context for why this should not offend them.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by Delk on Thursday June 11, 2020 @05:22PM (#23493400)
If people could just remember that there are in fact several meanings for words, having to engage in that conversation down the road would not even happen. Or perhaps it would, but assuming reasonable people, it might amount to clarifying what the word (such as "master") means in a particular case or where it came from. As long as the usage of the word isn't particularly strongly associated with what is offensive, that conversation shouldn't be a huge problem.

If people start jumping on the bandwagon of renaming "master" (or any such term) en masse because of it being "potentially offensive", that makes people think the usage of the word is offensive, and the potential offensiveness and having to explain that it's not becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And then we'll all need to change what we call this or that, just because people can't remember that words have multiple meanings.

Let's not turn meanings that are not problems into ones that are.

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by triyambakam on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:14AM (#23474179)
This kind of thinking though leads inadvertently to doublespeak. You end up avoiding saying so much you can't say anything.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by 1123581321 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:16AM (#23474194)
It’s not deep historical context. It’s a contemporary, widespread usage of master to refer to an original or an exemplar. In the rare case an adult doesn’t know this, they can catch up in seconds.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by dbsmith83 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:13AM (#23474178)
I don't think that's true. Then you would just be explaining to new team members why you are not using master. You can explain to someone who doesn't know in one sentence where the term comes from.
Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by arp242 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:21AM (#23474499)
> easier to just rename it now than it would be to explain to someone a few months down the road the deep historical context for why this should not offend them

Do you have any examples of such conversations, specifically regarding to the naming of the "master" branch?

Re:Easily rename your Git default branch from master to main by loco5niner on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:44PM (#23481874)
> it's a very small and relatively easy change to make to CREATE hiccups down the road.

Fixed that for you.