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Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by rayiner on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:13PM (#23442713)
What exactly is the “fascism” that we’re worried about spreading?
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by supercanuck on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:18PM (#23442771)
[dead]
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:37PM (#23442917)
You can fight against a green new deal without being fascist. But if you fight it by doing or allowing people to do things that undermine democracy, like say... withholding aid funds to coerce other nations to do things that hurt your political opponents... yeah, that leans towards fascism.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by rayiner on Saturday June 06, 2020 @08:30PM (#23443617)
No, I’m saying that, according to your link, fascism attacks liberal democracy and advocates for the “complete mobilization of society” to a single end. That’s exactly what the Green New Deal is.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Sunday June 07, 2020 @03:45PM (#23450134)
Not my link. But it feels like you’re intentionally misunderstanding what fascism is to try to make a point. Yes, the green new deal is a mobilization of society to a single end. Is anyone attempting to use “dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition” to do it? No. Nobody is.

Tigers are animals with stripes. Zebras are animals with stripes. A zebra is not a tiger. The green new deal could be part of a fascist movement, but it’s not.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by supercanuck on Sunday June 07, 2020 @12:51PM (#23448646)
The link is to wikipedia, if you think it is wrong, you could edit and submit that for review. You also add your insight on the Green New Deal being an example of facism.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by tptacek on Sunday June 07, 2020 @11:13PM (#23453250)
Obviously it can't be the case that any form of mobilization is equivalent to fascism. Societies mobilize all the time. According to Payne, fascism has a consistent goal of creating a new nationalist authoritarian state, with not simply a mobilization but a militarization of the populace --- a "mass party militia".

There's a kind of "horseshoe theory of politics" thing that happens with observations about Soviet communism and Italian fascism. Both systems are bad, and they share specific bad characteristics. But they are not the same; in fact, they're antithetical to each other.

I think the Green New Deal is poorly specified and ill-advised, but it is not Soviet communism and certainly not fascistic, and AOC is not a "charismatic authoritarian" in the fascist sense. It was a silly comparison to have made.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:30PM (#23442872)
Have you not been paying attention this past three years? Rampant nationalism, children in cages (still happening), police brutality and murder without repercussions, teargassing and beating peaceful protesters, the attorney general asserting that the president cannot break the law. I could go on, but if those don't make you worried about the threat of fascism, I'm not sure what would...
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by collegecamp293 on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:36PM (#23442909)
"Children in cages" happened during the Obama administration. No uproar then?
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by wetmore on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:41PM (#23442946)
You're really missing the forest for the trees there.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by tptacek on Sunday June 07, 2020 @11:15PM (#23453262)
1. Because we didn't notice, because nobody was bringing it up. The cat's out of the bag now.

2. Because many of us had a baseline belief that the Obama administration wouldn't enact punitive policies towards undocumented people for sport, and there's clear evidence that the current administration does that. So the calculus isn't the same.

3. There are drastically more caged children now, because the current administration adopted policies specifically intended to increase the caging of children, as a deterrent. So the policies themselves aren't the same.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:50PM (#23443037)
Oh, sorry, so the nation has been listing towards fascism for decades? That is not a refuting of any of my points.

Bush started the use of drones in war, but Obama bears the blame for them in my opinion, because he could have backed away from it but instead he doubled down. I would say the same for the treatment of refugees at the border. Obama built the cages, but Trump uses them with a sickening joy and enthusiasm.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by SamReidHughes on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:55PM (#23443077)
You seem to be misremembering. It was separating children from their family, not caging them, that people were complaining about last election season, because of perfectly ordinary border enforcement arresting illegal aliens.

The exception was some misaligned activists that accidentally posted Obama-era photos of "caged" children (behind a fence) a couple weeks early, which happened before some lawsuit forced the feds to release the children instead of housing them with their parents.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Saturday June 06, 2020 @07:05PM (#23443133)
"because of perfectly ordinary border enforcement arresting illegal aliens."

Sorry, no I am actually super upset about the ongoing detention and inhumane treatment of people at the border. ALSO about family separation, but the cages are immoral to me as well. Many of these people are not "illegal aliens" but people seeking asylum which is NOT illegal.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by SamReidHughes on Saturday June 06, 2020 @07:12PM (#23443180)
Illegal border crossing is still illegal. We have a system in place for asylum seekers at a port of entry.

Nonetheless, the point of my comment is that children are not being caged, they're now being separated, as happens when suspects get arrested.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Saturday June 06, 2020 @07:27PM (#23443264)
https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/immigrants-right...

> Mirian G, a mother from Honduras, came to the U.S. with her young son on Feb. 20, 2018. She presented herself to immigration authorities and sought asylum, committing no crime. During her interview, Mirian provided immigration officers with several identification documents for her child which listed her as his mother. The next morning, Border Patrol agents took away her 18-month-old son with no explanation. She did not see him again for two months.

Even if she had crossed illegally, separating an infant from its mother like this for two hours is unacceptable to me, much less two months - and I would hope it would also be unacceptable to you.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by SamReidHughes on Saturday June 06, 2020 @07:38PM (#23443327)
Huh? I'm just pointing out the facts here. I agree it would be nice if some children stayed with the parents, at the parents' discretion, and the border patrol had the resources and funding to make such stays comfortable.

Fortunately, today the mother would be told to stay in Mexico, and get to show up later at the port of entry for her asylum hearing. So we've fixed that problem.

Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Saturday June 06, 2020 @08:28PM (#23443603)
I was just pointing out that some of your facts are incorrect. You said "Illegal border crossing is still illegal" and "they're now being separated, as happens when suspects get arrested." and earlier "perfectly ordinary border enforcement arresting illegal aliens" but as you can see from the quote above - this is happening to people who did not get arrested or do anything illegal.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by SamReidHughes on Saturday June 06, 2020 @08:54PM (#23443726)
The example you give appears to be an exceptional case.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by tryptophan on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:24PM (#23442807)
People voting for trump.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by Avicebron on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:28PM (#23442854)
And not people advocating mass censorship on communication platforms? Please, you're biases are showing and it's embarrassing.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:40PM (#23442937)
You can't have it both ways. Either facebook/twitter/instagram are common-carrier public squares, or they are private corporations. If they are private corps, they can block whatever they want. If they are common carriers, they can't censor people, but they will also have to open up their platforms to competition and submit to more government oversight to allow for fair and equal access.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by Avicebron on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:45PM (#23442995)
I see no issue with the second option. Do you have an argument against that?
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by kennywinker on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:54PM (#23443072)
Nope. I'm for it. But you can't get upset about social media "censorship" without calling for these companies to be treated as common carrier / public squares and I see a lot of the former and not a lot of the latter. I suspect because gov. regulation of enterprise is traditionally opposed by the same right wing that is currently upset about social media censorship.
Re:Facebook limits spread of 'Boogaloo' groups amid protests by ryeights on Saturday June 06, 2020 @06:29PM (#23442863)
I think you missed the irony in GP's comment