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Re:What makes a character memorable? by perlgeek on Saturday June 06, 2020 @05:19PM (#23442308)
Many stories feel flat if the antagonist has simplistic or one-dimensional desires.

In basically all of the James Bond movies, the villains want revenge and/or world domination.

In contrast, in Worm [1] you spend some time with the antagonists (and a lot of side characters), and get a much better appreciation of their feelings and motivations. Sometimes you even feel sympathy for very messed-up characters to the degree that it creeps you out. (Fun fact: there's even a chapter from the perspective of a dog. Brilliant! :D)

[1] https://parahumans.wordpress.com/

Re:What makes a character memorable? by vz8 on Saturday June 06, 2020 @07:10PM (#23443168)
Thanks for the reminder of Worm. I mispla... correction, I buried my bookmark in the underworld that is my Chrome bookmarks.

Much appreciated.

Bookmarked again, higher in the stack in a folder titled "NEXT UP" with only ~200 entries

Re:What makes a character memorable? by pugio on Sunday June 07, 2020 @01:49AM (#23445092)
For those who have read Worm (and those considering reading it) I can't recommend the podcast "We've Got Worm" highly enough. The hosts discuss each chapter / section of Worm week by week, breaking down the writing, themes, and characters.

Worm is written in an incredibly gripping style (as befits a serialized work) and my first frantic read through I definitely missed many subtleties and examples of brilliant writing. I'd always wanted to reread it, but wasn't up for committing to the 1.5 million words a second time. The story is so gripping though, that I ended up binging the podcast because even their recaps were so compelling I couldn't stop.

If you want to have a vicarious book club, and really examine a work in depth, check it out. (They also have an ongoing podcast discussing Stephen King's The Dark Tower series with a similar level of analysis and detail. An excellent way of examining good writing.)

Re:What makes a character memorable? by TheOtherHobbes on Saturday June 06, 2020 @07:31PM (#23443286)
This is writing 102 - instead of a cookie cutter Hero With Desires and an Evil Antagonist everyone is morally ambiguous, and struggling with it to varying degrees. As is the reader.

It's much more involving, much harder to write, and much less common in genre fiction. But when it's done well it's a whole other level of writing.

Re:What makes a character memorable? by fredophile on Saturday June 06, 2020 @07:19PM (#23443220)
For a really interesting take on antagonists I'd recommend reading the Demon Cycle books by Peter Brett. In the first several books of the series the protagonist for the book is someone that was an antagonist earlier in the series.
Re:What makes a character memorable? by smaddox on Sunday June 07, 2020 @12:55PM (#23448674)
Other stories with villans of great depth:

- the Ender's Game Series

- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality (a fan fiction by Eliezer Yudkowsky)

Anyone else have recommendations?

Re:What makes a character memorable? by roenxi on Sunday June 07, 2020 @02:00AM (#23445133)
> Many stories feel flat if the antagonist has simplistic or one-dimensional desires.

Without disagreeing - "simplistic" has a couple of facets and some are bad while others can be good.

Inspector Javert of Les Mis was not a simple character, but it is difficult to draw out why not. He is certainly very memorable, but also made up of simple perspectives and motivations.

Re:What makes a character memorable? by cm2012 on Saturday June 06, 2020 @09:37PM (#23443997)
Worm is amazing and surprisingly deep.
Re:What makes a character memorable? by oehtXRwMkIs on Saturday June 06, 2020 @09:43PM (#23444021)
It is so far in my life the best story I have consumed in any media. I remember when I finished it I couldn't really enjoy movies or other books for several months. Every story felt shallow afterwards. Took a long time for me to forget Worm and to start enjoying other stories again.
Re:What makes a character memorable? by kanzenryu2 on Sunday June 07, 2020 @03:19AM (#23445445)
You may well have already seen it, but http://www.hpmor.com/ was even better, IMHO. It was there that I saw my first recommendation for Worm.
Re:What makes a character memorable? by oehtXRwMkIs on Sunday June 07, 2020 @05:50PM (#23451179)
Thanks, I have my doubts but I'll definitely give it a read.
Re:What makes a character memorable? by pavelegorkin on Sunday June 07, 2020 @02:39AM (#23445288)
nice serial, thanks dude