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Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by whoisjuan on Friday June 05, 2020 @01:23PM (#23431095)
Free flow of information is not the same as misinformation. Lack of understanding is not the same as misinforming.

I 100% support restricting distribution of material that is based on conjecture and bullshit info. Especially when that information comes with a for-profit motive. This person can easily put their book for free on their own website if they really feel they have important information to share.

Amazon can decide what goes on their platform. It always baffles me that people think that free speech comes with a right to have an audience. That's not what free speech is.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by jtgi8jgfdg on Friday June 05, 2020 @02:51PM (#23432318)
Have you kept up with our esteemed epidemiologists? They did an abrupt U-turn within a week:

“We should always evaluate the risks and benefits of efforts to control the virus,” Jennifer Nuzzo, a Johns Hopkins epidemiologist, tweeted on Tuesday. “In this moment the public health risks of not protesting to demand an end to systemic racism greatly exceed the harms of the virus.”

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/04/public-hea...

How can we decide what's scientific anymore?

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by dmix on Friday June 05, 2020 @03:25PM (#23432756)
> How can we decide what's scientific anymore?

Trust Amazon moderators will do the right thing, of course!

I'm sure Amazon can build a massive team of highly educated unbiased technocrats to carefully parse through the tens of millions of content being added to their services any one day.

There's no way this could fail.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by WalterBright on Friday June 05, 2020 @03:43PM (#23433010)
We can't allow anyone to publish a book advocating heliocentrism, that is heresy!
Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by solarkraft on Friday June 05, 2020 @02:00PM (#23431657)
> That's not what free speech is.

The argument becomes more difficult the more widely used and essential a platform is. Would you make the same argument about being restricted in what you can say over a private chat service? Over the last decades and especially during the pandemic how people assemble and use their right to free speech has massively shifted.

Before you assume that I hold an strong opinion on this: I don't think I do. I don't know where I want the line to be.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by ardy42 on Friday June 05, 2020 @02:46PM (#23432246)
>> That's not what free speech is.

> The argument becomes more difficult the more widely used and essential a platform is.

The solution is to not let any one platform get that big and essential as a matter of policy.

For free speech to actually be positive, I'm starting to think it's actually pretty important for that speech to be subjected to some kind of peer review process before it's broadcast widely. We used to have that when broadcasting was more limited and expensive, but by destroying those limits, social media also weakened the peer review.

People are more comfortable with smaller actors making editorial decisions, we need those kinds of decisions, so we need to keep the actors smaller.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by ping_pong on Friday June 05, 2020 @04:25PM (#23433548)
When people say the things that you say, what they really mean is "I believe in free speech, except for those opinions that I don't believe are right."

Restricting free speech until it's vetted is literally counter to what free speech actually is. Free speech is allowing everyone to speak, even if it makes you nauseous. If you don't believe in free speech, then say so, that's your right as per free speech. But please don't try to gaslight people into thinking that "peer-reviewed free speech" is anything except censorship.

What if the peers that review it don't agree with your world view and don't allow books published that you agree with? Will you calmly accept it, or will you claim censorship?

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by ardy42 on Friday June 05, 2020 @06:35PM (#23434801)
> When people say the things that you say, what they really mean is "I believe in free speech, except for those opinions that I don't believe are right."

No they don't, since you misunderstood what I was saying.

> Restricting free speech until it's vetted is literally counter to what free speech actually is. Free speech is allowing everyone to speak, even if it makes you nauseous.

Again, I'm not advocating restricting anyone's speech, but rather emphasizing the value of a system with people who make editorial judgements. Amazon, like any publisher, should have the uncontroversial right to refuse to publish or sell any book it pleases for any reason it finds compelling. If its size makes people queasy about that, then it should be broken up to the point where that's not an issue.

> But please don't try to gaslight people into thinking that "peer-reviewed free speech" is anything except censorship.

So you're saying it's censorship that scientific journals refuse to publish the papers crackpots send them?

It's worth remembering that the ultimate goal of free speech is for the truth to prevail, not to nauseate everyone by forcing them to sort through and disseminate mountains of garbage.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by zarkov99 on Friday June 05, 2020 @05:56PM (#23434487)
The reviews are not coming from peers. The are exclusively coming from a niche section of the population: urban, young, affluent and left leaning. Not that this it would be OK even if it was a "diverse" gang of censors.
Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by Alex63 on Friday June 05, 2020 @04:16PM (#23433439)
Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by selimthegrim on Friday June 05, 2020 @11:19PM (#23436518)
Ooh! Oooh!, I've got one (in Hans Landa voice)

[4] https://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Collion-Immanuel-Velikovsky/dp...

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by zepto on Friday June 05, 2020 @01:26PM (#23431143)
‘who decides what is bullshit’

Is the usual problem with this.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by reaperducer on Friday June 05, 2020 @01:35PM (#23431304)
I don't buy the argument that bullshit exists on a perpetually grey gradient. There are things that are clearly bullshit.
Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by Reedx on Friday June 05, 2020 @02:11PM (#23431802)
I think flat earth falls into that category. However... the problem is there are also things that seem clearly like bullshit that we later find out not to be.

Have you ever been completely convinced about something that turned out to be entirely wrong? Almost certainly, probably more than a few times. It happens to all of us. And sometimes this happens on a societal scale with things like science and civil rights. Ideas not accepted at the time, attempted silence, but fortunately resisted censorship until history was able to bore them out.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by zepto on Friday June 05, 2020 @02:46PM (#23432249)
Nobody is making that argument.

The problem is that there are fewer clearly bullshit things than people think.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by zarkov99 on Friday June 05, 2020 @05:51PM (#23434445)
Yes, that is what they told Galileo. They were wrong of course, but we are so much wiser now, we could not possibly make the same mistakes.
Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by whoisjuan on Friday June 05, 2020 @01:32PM (#23431247)
Well, with ideas like the one that claims COVID is spread to 5G networks, it's pretty easy to draw the line. But I get what you're saying. The closer you get to a rational argument the harder it is to scrutinize it.
Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by offmycloud on Friday June 05, 2020 @01:40PM (#23431386)
Can you please provide a quote from the book in question?
Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by Dylan16807 on Friday June 05, 2020 @05:48PM (#23434422)
That comment isn't about the book in question so I'm not sure why you're asking them?
Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by zarkov99 on Friday June 05, 2020 @05:48PM (#23434423)
What do you mean the right to have an audience? People still need to buy the freaking thing, why does Amazon get to decide if they can or cannot?

Different rules apply when you are a monopoly. Amazon refusing to sell a book is very different from a Mom and Pop shop doing the same.

Re:Amazon refuses to sell book on Covid-19 and lockdowns by claytongulick on Friday June 05, 2020 @03:42PM (#23432994)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

Who watches the watchmen?