Every part of the world has its own messaging apps. Depending on where you live, it might be WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, WeChat, LINE, or I’m sure others. In Europe I know for a fact that the popular app varies from country to country. So you could just as easily dismiss LINE as a “purely Japanese phenomenon” but the fact is each app is popular in a certain part of the world.

Because network effects are more important than UX or features.

Sure it does, but cross platform IMs are not so socially discriminating. You can easily download LINE and move on with your life in Japan. But getting iMessage is an economic barrier for many, for which they end up being socially ostraostracized

> But getting iMessage is an economic barrier for many

economic barrier to buy ~$100 used iphone on ebay?

Are you really going to buy, charge, supply with data and carry around a second phone, no matter how cheap, just so you can send blue messages? That attitude is, like many american ideas, really whack.

If technology X/Y/Z brings me something useful, I prefer to spend some money to get in. Social environment matters too.

You can live without iOS/Android, even with Android/macOS VM (heh, I've tried it once) - this is your choice.

I think the best reason is explained in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23412067 - ie. how most social circles will exclude Android users. I imagine this is only be the case when only one or two people of the group are using Android though, so if even a few people in the friend group are in that situation you might see more WhatsApp/FB Messenger.

My mid-30s colleague went back to Tinder in recent years and he mentioned he got questioned by his target market about not having a blue bubble. They were all Asian (but mostly Chinese) women in their late 20s who moved to Australia.

With reference to a recent HN thread, I wonder if saying "I'm a developer/security expert/working on a classified government project and HAVE to use a special phone" would garner sympathy or admiration and stop the questions.

This is funny because as someone who works on important but non-classified stuff for the government, I do carry around a government issued phone so that I can access my work email/IM anywhere. But, (a) it's another iPhone and (b) I'd get in an awful lot of trouble if I installed Tinder on it. Most people probably wouldn't realize that though.

Well the most annoying thing about whatsapp (other than its owned by Facebook) is that it can't automatically fallback to sms for contacts not using it.

But not all of the world have moved to whatsapp. I am from Scandinavian and I only have a very limited number of contacts available on whatsapp, most are on iMessage.

On iOS, that's not by any fault of WhatsApp.

Well given that it also does not do it on android I dont see that mattering.

Not really an Android or WhatsApp user, so my perspective there is probably not all that relevant ;) I am curious if any apps there fall back to SMS? I think Hangouts might have a long time back?

I think hangouts did and Facebook messenger for Android once did

Signal does.

No, WhatsApp does not bring the same features. WhatsApp is very different. You can react to messages in iMessage, which is just one among other features WhatsApp doesn’t have.

Yeah I mean there will little tiny things different on each app, but it's not a big deal breaker for many. Whatsapp is the biggest IM on the planet for a reason. People could easily ditch iMessage in favour of Whatsapp if they wanted to, but for some reason Americans don't do that.

The absolute deal breaker for WhatsApp for me is that it is owned by Facebook. There is zero chance I would consider using it for anything, ever, because of that fact.

The idea of moving to a different chat platform won’t even come up if your current system has the features you need and everyone you want to reach is on it. What would nudge a group to collectively move to WhatsApp if iMessage is the default and works well for them?

> What would nudge a group to collectively move to WhatsApp if iMessage is the default and works well for them?

The fact their choice leads to needless exclusion of people who would otherwise be their friends.

I don’t use What’s App for the simple reason I like how my contacts are integrated across my Apple devices. From email, to “normal” phone calls, to Siri, calendar invites, and even directions “hey Siri, directions to Tom’s work” — it all works seamlessly. If I want to send someone a location from Maps, it’s seamless. If I am using something like Find My, I can easily send a message from there — or even create a Shortcut to send a geofenced message. And Memojis are just simply fun. When I am on the road, sending my kids a message with a talking robot really makes their day.

I also have big trust problems with Facebook products. Apple makes iMessage to sell devices, what does Facebook do with What’s App? There have been reports in the past that installed Facebook, Inc., apps were sending analytics from devices on other apps people were using, pretty much like a Trojan horse. I don’t want any installed Facebook related apps on my devices because Facebook lost my trust long ago. While supposedly What’s App is “secure,” the entire history of Facebook has been littered with “oops, you caught us and we are really really sorry this time.”

It's not a problem on Android at all and just a limitation of the Apple platforms.

When I try to use a "share" action for example, I get my contacts from the phone and Whatsapp at the same level. My list of contacts actually has a merged view of all my contacts stored on my phone, Whatsapp and other services. Contacts on multiple services are merged appropriately.

It works just fine.

I use both iMessage and WhatsApp heavily, the annoying thing about iMessage is the lack of ability to quote messages and @people.

Rumors say this might be planned for an upcoming iOS release.

You're saying some people exclude others from their friends group because of fucking smiley faces on a message? God that would be stupid if true.

Social dynamics are subtle. For example, group SMS doesn’t support contact names. If you add someone to a group SMS, the other people only see a phone number unless they go out of their way to add the new guy to their contact list. Likewise, the new person has to add everyone else to see names. Decades of research in behavioral economics show just how powerful defaults are, so most people probably won’t bother to add names. Without names, the new person will have a more difficult time connecting with the group.

This isn’t stupid. It’s the natural consequences of tech that doesn’t conform to real human behaviors and social norms.

Your argument fails when you consider Whatsapp - the biggest messaging platform, where you need to add people's number in your contact to be able to see their names.

I agree with power of defaults though. Only reason iMessage took off, and so did other Apple services.

You definitely don't... Unknown contacts show as e.g. "+1234567890 ~Bob" (their WhatsApp display name). When you save them to your contacts it switches to the name you added instead.

Exactly this about excluding names. I was sent a group message and didn’t reply because I didn’t recognize the number. I started another chat, deleted the number and then responded.

> Message craze is a purely American phenomenon

This is mistaken. I'm in the EU and do not know a single person using SMS, nor Whatsapp, they use iMessage, however, bigtime.

Whatsapp used to be a thing, but that has been over for some time. Now, most are using Messenger, Snap, and Telegram.

And iMessage is not a craze or a phenomenon, it is a simple convenience; it's on your phone already. For most people using it, it is not even a deliberate choice. The younger generation grew up with it, they do not even really know the difference between SMS and iMessage, except that if the bubble is green, the other user does not have an iPhone.

The older generation remembers SMS, so they still tend to call it SMS, even though they are using iMessage.

Android users are in the minority around here, well, at least between family, friends, and at work.

Well, I'm in the EU (France/UK) and do not know a single person that doesn't use Whatsapp. I'm also not even completely sure what iMessage is, nobody ever mentioned it.

All I mean is: anecdotal evidence and social bubbles

> All I mean is: anecdotal evidence and social bubbles

Sure.

However, there is usage data available if one's interested.

https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2019/02/whatsapp-fac...