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Re:Zoom says it won’t encrypt free calls so it can work more... by pydry on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @04:51AM (#23401384)
It'll stop feeling like zealotry as governments develop more and more stasi-like tendencies.

The trouble is, by the time they do (and they will, China is halfway there), it will be too late to protest.

Re:Zoom says it won’t encrypt free calls so it can work more... by tsimionescu on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:08AM (#23402093)
Actually, the government already has, and has always had, stasi-like tendencies, they just happen to mostly target people who are not given a platform to talk about it.

Police and other law enforcement are already using legal powers to infiltrate and monitor 'radical' political groups such as Black Lives Matter, just like they have in the past with civil liberties groups. In fact, as we discovered in the COINTELPRO leaks, they were going way beyond the legal limits, having been complicit in the assassination of Malcolm X, and having tried to blackmail MLK into committing suicide.

Of course, it could be that such things don't happen anymore. Or, seeing how the police in Minneapolis are actively targeting journalists, it is significantly more likely that we just don't know about it yet.

No large state has ever tolerated real dissent to any great extent. The state doesn't have to be as paranoid about dissent as China or the USSR (which almost require(d) enthusiastic support) for police powers to eb abused against the legitimate interests of citizens.

Re:Zoom says it won’t encrypt free calls so it can work more... by Blackstone4 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @05:02AM (#23401447)
Fair point with regards to government overeach. I feel like this is both a practical and political question we would need to answer as a society. What level of surveillance would be acceptable? Zero? Some? Maybe when for temporary accounts with no identity attached?

Inheritly in society, there was always some form of surveillance. When we left our homes, people around us could see and hear what we are doing and there in report suspicious behavor. Now we are adjusting to a new way of life with new forms of surveillance which are harder to detect. I completely get it and I more for encryption then for not. I guess I am also challenging myself to see both sides and think about a middle ground.

While Western governments could be better behaved, I'm feel like comparisons with the stasi are somewhat extreme and out of wack. I live in the UK and generally speaking I'm happy with the government here when it comes to surveillance. Maybe the US has a greater focus on security but they are a long way from stasi.

Re:Zoom says it won’t encrypt free calls so it can work more... by partyboat1586 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @05:23AM (#23401541)
They might be long away from stasi now but you don't get there in a big leap you get there slowly, justifiable inch by justifiable inch until the surveillance is enough you don't have to justify it anymore because people are too afraid to protest.

If you want to discuss surveillance then yes of course it's a matter of degree. Putting cameras in a bank vs putting cameras in a pub vs putting cameras in your home. As you can tell in the real world it's clearer when it's a step too far. In the digital world we need to be more careful because it's unmapped territory.

You need to think hard about why it's an invasion of privacy to put cameras in your home. It may seem obvious but it's not. Once you understand the reasons why that is an invasion of privacy then you can start to draw analogies to the digital world and understand what is going too far and what is not. The problem is people don't have a deeper understanding of the reason we need privacy so they are easily sold security in the form of digital surveillance without understanding the eventual consequence.

Re:Zoom says it won’t encrypt free calls so it can work more... by pydry on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:04PM (#23404966)
I don't think it's practical to focus on the amount of surveillance as it is its nature and whether or not it can justify itself.

We already live in a society where widespread aggressive authoritarian surveillance that doesn't justify itself is commonplace. Snowden proved this. Your emails are read. Your naked selfies looked at. Personal data is used frequently to crack down heavily on legitimate dissent. These are unquestionable and it's getting worse and more entrenched, not less and it hasn't caught a single act of terrorism like it was set up (ostensibly) to do. The question is, how do we personally react to the unchecked growth of stasi-friendly surveillance infrastructure?

I think arguing that western governments could be better behaved is a fair point. The stasi also could have been better behaved. Frequent appeals to moderation didn't make them behave though and they haven't and won't make western governments behave either, though.

Appeals to moderation have a null effect because if the goalposts keep being moved, so does the moderate position. If you want your opinion to never matter at all, always pick the moderate, middle ground opinion.