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Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:03AM (#23399543)
Wild.

Especially now, it's important to remind ourselves that American slavery isn't a thing of the the distant past - there are old people alive today whose fathers literally fought in the war to keep slavery legal. And the last former slave died in 1971 [1], which means there are probably tons of middle-aged people going about their lives who personally knew and had conversations with ex-slaves.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_Magee

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by lsiebert on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @03:08AM (#23400768)
I'd also point out that while slavery may have supposedly ended after the civil war, crimes were created and applied selectively to black people.

Combined with racial violence, sharecropping that kept black people in constant debt, and other policies, many black people were still forced to labor against their will.

Even now, prison labor is still regularly exploited. For example, low level offenders in California are a big part of the fire fighters that fight wildfires, but they are paid below minimum wage (like a dollar an hour), and then, despite that training, they typically can't work as firefighters after release because of their criminal history.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/14/california-is-paying-inmates...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4928680/Haunting-pi... https://theconversation.com/exploiting-black-labor-after-the... https://listverse.com/2017/06/21/10-ways-american-slavery-co...

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Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by godzillabrennus on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @10:31AM (#23403706)
Mostly agree. We live in the era of Jim Crow 2.0 and the media are blind to it.

Incentives for politicians exist to keep percentages of felonies High in these communities to keep the people from voting.

Drug war is a war on the poor and people of color.

If we want change we end the drug war. Make drugs legal and treat addiction as a medical issue.

That means single payer healthcare needs to be the law of the land.

Doubt that any of these protests will do anything to solve the issues though.

Way too much money at stake.

Expecting small concessions like police being stripped of their military gear.

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by toomuchtodo on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @10:36AM (#23403769)
Never give up! Florida just restored voting rights to >1 million felons who had served their time, first by vote, and then by the judiciary when the state government stalled.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by gatleon on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:40AM (#23404617)
This is my understanding as well. I found this video puts together a nice history lesson on how it changed forms and a little of the why as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMVfrvsIfAo&feature=youtu.be

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by danieltillett on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:17AM (#23399621)
I have serious doubts about Sylvester’s claims - people just don’t live to 130.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by smt88 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:47AM (#23402338)
That seems completely irrelevant to GP's point.

If a Civil War veteran were born in 1845, served in his late teens, and died at 85, then anyone older than 90 could have spoken to him.

Play with assumptions a bit, or go back a few decades, and the numbers become much less extreme.

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by duckMuppet on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:34AM (#23402240)
I think Russ Roberts of econtalk went into this pretty in depth.

EconTalk: John Cogan on Entitlements and the High Cost of Good Intentions http://www.EconTalk.org http://files.libertyfund.org/econtalk/y2017/Coganentitlement...

Ironically, everyone here seems to be angling at the political angle, not the fact that pensions can be easily survive well beyond what they were intended, especially public ones.

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by DrBazza on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:35AM (#23403164)
The past isn't that far away:

"Samuel James Seymour (March 28, 1860 – April 12, 1956) was the last surviving person who had been in Ford's Theatre the night of the assassination of U.S. President Abraham Lincoln on April 14, 1865. "

"Two months before his death, Seymour[4] appeared on the February 9, 1956, broadcast of the CBS TV panel show I've Got a Secret."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_J._Seymour

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by ThinkingGuy on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:51AM (#23403329)
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by lsh123 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:17AM (#23399620)
I would be curious to find out how many Americans today have ancestors who lived in America during Civil war. Even more detailed question is with percentages cohorts based on how many ancestors were in America vs somewhere else during that time.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by Izkata on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @01:09AM (#23399988)
Through census and immigration records, it looks like every branch of my family tree came over between 1890 and 1910.

Thing is, only one of those branches was even well-known among my family, the others are all lost history. Out of curiosity I've asked some friends and co-workers and several have said similar things - they don't know when their ancestors immigrated, their personal family history just doesn't go back that far.

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by 082349872349872 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @02:56AM (#23400703)
It takes some legwork, but both my wife and I (thanks to our parents' curiosity during their retirements) have been able to go back to the 1700's for at least some lines. Even the europeans were moving around a lot internationally, though.

The portion of my family tree from the US is about half pre-Civil War, of which most were pre-Revolution. (and my father told me that, while researching, he found the Mormons for some reason have records on way more people than just their adherents. Could be useful)

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @04:11AM (#23401138)
Regarding Mormons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead#Genealogy...

They believe the dead can be baptized, which is a driving force behind their mission trips to other countries - if they convert one person with a very different family tree, they not only save one soul, but they enable all of that person's dead ancestors to make it into heaven as well.

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by mm89 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:15PM (#23405104)
Wow, that is an interesting fact... thanks. I've never heard this before, and I don't think it's common knowledge among non-Mormons like myself. Interesting stuff...
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by Someone on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @03:33AM (#23400922)
The Mormons believe they can baptize people after their death (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topi...).

That’s why they collect lots of genealogical information, world wide (https://www.familysearch.org), so that they can baptize all forefathers of current Mormons.

The baptizing leads to critique, for example when they baptize people of other faiths. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/21/mormons-holoca...:

“Mormons have recently posthumously baptised at least 20 Holocaust victims, Humphrey Bogart, Marilyn Monroe and the Queen Mother, according to a researcher who has spent two decades monitoring the church’s massive genealogical database.”

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by allwein on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:23AM (#23403043)
Suddenly Orson Scott Card's "Speaker for the Dead" makes a lot more sense to me.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by lowdose on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @05:01AM (#23401444)
How does one baptize a death person?
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by FineTralfazz on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @06:16AM (#23401827)
They baptize a living person, who acts as a proxy. If I remember correctly, there's some stipulation that the person in heaven has to actually accept the baptism, they're not just being forced into it. I don't remember the specifics of that though, I left the church a few years ago.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @09:41AM (#23403218)
> there's some stipulation that the person in heaven has to actually accept the baptism

Would the unbaptized not be in limbo or hell? I'm a bit confused by the mythology of all this - it seems to be offering a lifeline(deathline? spiritline?) out of eternal torture. If you're in heaven, baptism seems irrelevant, or are there levels of heaven? What good is an act of faith when you're literally experiencing the truth of the claims at that very moment?

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by ababc on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:06AM (#23404162)
The LDS church teaches that all spirits await the resurrection in a 'spirit world,' which is divided into different conditions for the just and the wicked, that heaven is divided into three 'degrees of glory,' and that baptism is a precondition for attaining the highest degree of glory. In this system, nearly all spirits go to heaven after the resurrection. Those who do not accept Christ as their savior receive some punishment / hell in the spirit world, but eventually end up in the lowest kingdom of heaven (so not 'eternal' torture).

> What good is an act of faith when you're literally experiencing the truth of the claims at that very moment?

I don't know what kind of information spirits in the spirit world have, but the LDS church teaches that there's some teaching of the gospel still going on in the spirit world, so presumably spirits don't automatically have complete information. The LDS teaching is that baptism is prerequisite for attaining the highest degree of glory, and all spirits have the opportunity in the spirit world to accept baptism by proxy if they did not have an opportunity during their life to be baptized or chose not to be.

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_the_unlearned#Latter-d...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_world_(Latter_Day_Saint...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_salvation_(Latter_Day_...

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:12AM (#23404242)
Thanks for the information! It's disheartening to know the afterlife has so much bureaucracy.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by Someone on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @06:08AM (#23401780)
Had to google that. You use a stand-in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by RickJWagner on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:55AM (#23402378)
Why on earth should this post be greyed out? Just the mere mention of Mormons?
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by irrational on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:46AM (#23399816)
My earliest ancestors came over in 1620, the last came over in the 1850s. So during the civil war, all my ancestors were already on this continent. However, none of them participated in the war since they all lived out west, beyond the boundaries of the USA, throughout the war.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by goda90 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @01:24AM (#23400086)
The West was involved in the war in various ways. California was a state and Nevada became one. Gold and volunteers were sent east. There were troops sent to secure New Mexico from the confederacy.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by irrational on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @02:41AM (#23400612)
None of those are places my ancestors lived.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by goda90 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @04:39PM (#23408392)
The civil war took place after the Mexican-American war and the establishment of the border with British Canada. What is the western US now was under US control. Some parts were states, some territories. There was military and political activity all over the region related to the civil war. My ancestors lived in Utah. They didn't go fight, but that doesn't mean they were entirely isolated from the events.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by pmiller2 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @01:45AM (#23400226)
1620 huh? You might be my distant cousin.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by stormdennis on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @01:01AM (#23399918)
In gangs of New York they portray immigrants getting off ships, being recruited and then being put on other ships to head south. Doubtless there's a good dollop of artistic licence involved but it possibly was a thing
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by adventured on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @01:29AM (#23400131)
~31 million Americans in 1860, so it's likely to be a large number.

Half of my family, of German Dutch ancestry, dates along the east coast to before the Revolutionary War, and spent the better part of 200 years as farmers in the northern Union Appalachia region (the last generation that were farmers is almost gone now; the family farm land - which isn't very valuable land - has been gradually sold off over the past century; the area is difficult land to farm, it's a rough way of life, and it's nearly impossible to compete with modern corporate farming). The other half came over during one of the large immigration waves toward the end of the 19th century.

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by hodgesrm on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:30AM (#23399705)
There's a lot of us, especially in the South. My great-grandfather was a child in the siege of Petersburg. My mom still tells the story of how the family house was struck by a Union cannonball as they were sitting outside it. She heard it directly from her grandfather when she was a child herself.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by bitbckt on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:24AM (#23404375)
Some of my ancestors arrived as early as the 1620s. There have been several books about them. Here's one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1333427255

My Civil War era ancestors were in Nevada at the time, where we've largely remained since.

Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by mleo on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:39AM (#23399764)
Possibly a lot, given the potential exponential descendants 1 person could have. I have several ancestors and their relatives that fought for the North. My kids could trace 5-6 generations back to the civil war, meaning 32-64 ancestors to consider.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by pmiller2 on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @01:42AM (#23400213)
I have ancestors living in America in the 17th century.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by WalterBright on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:12AM (#23399591)
I heard that the last Civil War soldier died in the 1950s.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by pfranz on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @01:24AM (#23400093)
I know someone (born in 1951) who said they remember a school announcement that the last Civil War soldier died. That matches what you had heard.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by ponker on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @04:07AM (#23401117)
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by WalterBright on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @05:52AM (#23401696)
WW2 ended 75 years ago, so someone 16 serving in 1945 would be 91 today.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by throwaway0a5e on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @08:50AM (#23402739)
If I remember correctly the "why we fight" series of WW2 propaganda films opens with elderly American Civil War veterans participating in the 1940 Washington DC memorial day parade.
Re:Last Person to Receive Civil War-Era Pension Dies by ghettoimp on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:09AM (#23399569)
That is a pretty wild Wikipedia page.