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Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by newacct583 on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:13AM (#23349544)
Not an argument for this site I guess. But this is what happens when you have political leaders picking sides in violence. Trump literally tweeted "when the looting starts the shooting starts" (not before this event, of course -- it's an example). You think rhetoric like that doesn't have the effect of empowering police to abuse their power against people they don't like?
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by acobster on Friday May 29, 2020 @11:47AM (#23351372)
"Not an argument for this site I guess," hence the downvotes, heh. I agree though. And I'd take it a step further and say that the institution of policing in the US has historically always been on the side of systemic violence. Police forces literally started as night patrols to catch runaway slaves, which as about as racist as it gets. If there was a point in history where they somehow severed ties with their racist origins and underwent fundamental, institutional change, I've yet to learn about it.
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by banads on Friday May 29, 2020 @12:04PM (#23351661)
>If there was a point in history where they somehow severed ties with their racist origins and underwent fundamental, institutional change, I've yet to learn about it.

The opposite, actually. The civil rights movement of the 60s was infiltrated, surveilled, and disrupted by secret police, and largely ended with it's greatest leaders being assassinated and mass riots.

Then Nixon launched the War on Drugs in the 70s and mass incarceration began.

In the 80s we saw Democrats and Republicans further ramping up the war on drugs, with the passage of laws such as the Anti Drug Abuse Act of 1986, while at the same time it was soon revealed that the CIA was helping their Nicaraguan Contra friends raise money by importing billions of dollars of cocaine into inner cities as a part of the Iran Contra conspiracy, initializing the crack epidemic. The investigations into these wrong doings was quickly shut down, the investigative journalist leading the charge was suicided, and the government officials responsible were pardoned.

Fast forward 30 years, and the mass incarceration levels have been holding steady and communities are even weaker by some metrics than they were before the civil rights movement, though perhaps we've made some marginal improvements in states where cannabis has been legalized, but we've still got a lot more to do: namely, ending the tyrannical and racist war on drugs at the Federal level.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by kfrzcode on Friday May 29, 2020 @11:35AM (#23351187)
Where's the HN-for-politicking? (not /r/*)
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by corrupt_measure on Friday May 29, 2020 @12:37PM (#23352144)
> "when the looting starts the shooting starts"

That's simply a recognition that looting begets violence, meaning that the looting must be stopped before things become more violent, and a call to action to those who appear content to let the looting run rampant as if it's somehow OK or justified.

In such an escalation both protestors and counter protestors would be shooting, so bringing the situation under control quickly is in the best interest of the protestors and the community as a whole.

Trump's tweet was just a recognition of that.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by popularrecluse on Friday May 29, 2020 @12:53PM (#23352383)
Thank you for Trumpsplaining that one. Boy, I need to get better at hearing it like it is.
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by spoiledtechie on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:16AM (#23349588)
Police abuse their power when leaders pick sides? And what about the Mayor? Has he not chosen sides? He lambasted the riots, but has allowed it to continue. Actions and words.
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by tehwebguy on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:27AM (#23349709)
The mayor told the police to do the one thing that could’ve stopped all of this: arrest the murderer.

100% of this is happening because police continue to refuse to arrest police.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by snazz on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:18AM (#23349621)
Frey's actual power over the police and the Hennepin County Attorney is relatively limited.
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by blunte on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:24AM (#23349682)
The mayor doesn't have authority over the police.
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by creaghpatr on Friday May 29, 2020 @10:39AM (#23350408)
Who does?
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by blunte on Friday May 29, 2020 @12:44PM (#23352258)
It will depend on the type of police force. In the case of a state police, it would be a combination of the state legislature and state judiciary. The real answer is surely lengthy and complicated, but suffice to say the mayor (thankfully) does not control the police... just as thankfully the president does not control the military.
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by thejynxed on Friday May 29, 2020 @02:55PM (#23354051)
I'd like to know exactly when the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces doesn't control the military.
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by newacct583 on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:46AM (#23349905)
> He lambasted the riots, but has allowed it to continue

How, exactly? I mean, it's not like the rioters are following his orders (or maybe you're saying they are?!). If you're just saying it's his responsibility, then sure, but he's not the only one. Aren't community leaders, the police, the governor and the president likewise "allowing" the riots to continue simply because they haven't stopped them?

I mean, Trump literally evoked an image of shooting rioters. Did anyone else do anything similar?

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by sparkling on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:27AM (#23349711)
> when the looting starts the shooting starts

Harsh words, but at the end of the day, people will defend their property with a gun and have every right in doing so.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by splitrocket on Friday May 29, 2020 @10:47AM (#23350524)
Yes, extrajudicial murder to protect physical property, that's justice.

When you care more about stuff than you do about actual human lives, your evil is showing.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by bruceb on Friday May 29, 2020 @12:48PM (#23352315)
Depends where you live. The duty to retreat is different depending on location.

Shooting someone over dollar store items is dumb. But defending your sole proprietorship you have built up and is the only thing you have, understandable.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by splitrocket on Friday May 29, 2020 @02:30PM (#23353724)
Frankly, if you value stuff over people's lives, well, I don't know how to teach you that you should care.

Secondly, this is a single, solitary reason out of the myriad of other reasons, why we, as as a species, invented insurance.

Please, give up your childish John Wayne fantasies, which, to be honest are barbaric and counter to the very essence of civilization, and join the adults who build societies and systems that protect people.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by pwillia7 on Friday May 29, 2020 @11:49AM (#23351395)
Your insured stuff even...
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Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by splitrocket on Friday May 29, 2020 @02:22PM (#23353617)
"I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."

Martin Luther King.

More recently, though, someone whose business was, in fact, damaged:

"Let my building burn, Justice needs to be served, put those officers in jail."

Ruhel Islam, a Bangladeshi immigrant and owner of Gandhi Mahal Restaurant

https://www.facebook.com/GandhiMahalRestaurant/posts/3030378...

If you value civility and property over justice and human life, well, then, I'm sorry... You might be the baddies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by newacct583 on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:51AM (#23349953)
Trump was talking literally about directing the military to shoot looters (it's right there in the tweet!), not expressing an abstract right of people to defend their own property.

So no, downvoting you isn't anything to do with the constitution.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by sparkling on Friday May 29, 2020 @10:04AM (#23350068)
> Trump was talking literally about directing the military to shoot looters

Uhm, no

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by MaxBarraclough on Friday May 29, 2020 @10:39AM (#23350418)
> ....These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won't let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!

[sic]

Taken from https://news.sky.com/story/george-floyd-death-twitter-flags-...

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by 101404 on Friday May 29, 2020 @11:39AM (#23351268)
So, were did he say "to shoot looters"?

That's just one possible interpretation, if you really want to understand him that way.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by newacct583 on Friday May 29, 2020 @12:05PM (#23351668)
It's true that the president's writing here is characteristically vague. But right here in this one tweet he:

1. Introduces the military

2. Says he will assume control

3. Introduces the idea of shooting looters

Given that context, it's extremely difficult to concoct an interpretation where he's not saying he'll direct the military to shoot looters.

I mean, be serious here. Is your defense really that "The president's grammar was poor, so you can't prove he meant what he seemed to say". How many times are you going to try that trick? Wasn't it played out after he vaguely suggested injecting bleach?

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by MaxBarraclough on Friday May 29, 2020 @12:18PM (#23351892)
In the interests of precision, Trump didn't suggest that people try injecting bleach, he suggested that researchers look into injecting disinfectant as a means of treating those with the virus.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

I see I'm being downvoted. Is my account of things incorrect, or is it because I didn't explicitly spell out that it's silly for a president to give brain-dead research advice to experts?

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by 101404 on Friday May 29, 2020 @06:31PM (#23356348)
Yes, that's another thing Trump said that was purposefully "misunderstood".

There are many things to criticize him for. But sadly the media is so incredibly lazy that they constantly make up these "scandals" about things he supposedly "meant".

And: you are downvoted because you are not following groupthink. It doesn't matter how factually correct it is.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by MaxBarraclough on Saturday May 30, 2020 @07:02AM (#23360248)
The truth of it is still scandalous. Does it absolve Trump of responsibility for idiots drinking disinfectant? At least partially, yes. It's still a ridiculous way for a leader to behave.

It's absurd that Trump thought he was in a position to give technical advice to medical researchers, and it's even more absurd that he thought injecting disinfectant could be the way to go. The hubris and ignorance on display here are shocking.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by pwillia7 on Friday May 29, 2020 @11:51AM (#23351431)
> Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we [The Military] will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.

Who would he be implying is doing the shooting other than the Military that will assume control?

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by MaxBarraclough on Friday May 29, 2020 @11:52AM (#23351440)
No, it isn't one of several reasonable interpretations, it's what he quite plainly wrote.

What else could 'shooting' possibly refer to, if not the shooting of looters?

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by 101404 on Friday May 29, 2020 @02:33PM (#23353755)
Shooting could refer to guns use by the looters. It could refer to self defense of police attacked by looters. It could simply be a word to symbolize violence of any kind. And there are many more interpretations.

But discussion about it isn't possible, sorry. I am heavily downvoted for not following groupthink, so I am rate limited when it comes to posting.

Oh well.

Why aren't people over there more upset about those reporters getting arrested by state police on the street? That was pretty f'ed up. But I guess when it can't be blamed on Trump, people over there just don't care.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by newacct583 on Friday May 29, 2020 @10:28AM (#23350307)
Quote the tweet then.
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Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by Hamuko on Friday May 29, 2020 @09:44AM (#23349889)
Is the US Constitution a sacred cow?
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by sparkling on Friday May 29, 2020 @10:04AM (#23350069)
Yes
Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by wtallis on Friday May 29, 2020 @11:31AM (#23351138)
From the site guidelines:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

A one-word answer to a question that was clearly probing for more details about your opinions is not an appropriate response.

Re:CNN reporter arrested live on air while covering Minneapo... by kfrzcode on Friday May 29, 2020 @11:35AM (#23351192)
It is the supreme law of the land