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A comment on U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens. Parent comment

Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by gambiting on Thursday May 28, 2020 @10:28AM (#23337679)
As a citizen of a country that was invaded and taken apart multiple times in the last 200 years(Poland) - no, that's a very noble idea, but in practice that doesn't always work. Poland has survived in the shape that it is mostly because people were able to move and cultivate the Polish language, culture and heritage elsewhere temporarily. We even had a government-in-exile for a while in London, at the time when Poland was literally wiped off the map of Europe and just didn't exist any more, except in peoples' minds. I can't imagine my country would exist at all if other countries had your approach - just piss off and if you want to exist then go and fight. Sometimes this requires time, not grabbing swords and fighting.
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by rrss on Thursday May 28, 2020 @10:59AM (#23338052)
I don't think it's useful to generalize about whether people 'should' 'stay and fight' or not - it depends so much on the individuals and on the circumstances, but anyway:

Ultra was able to successfully decrypt Enigma messages because the British evacuated Polish code breakers, so I suppose it's a good thing those people didn't stay and fight.

The Polish resistance saved tens of thousands of Jews from the Holocaust and gave a ton of information to the Allies, so I suppose it's a good thing those people did stay and fight.

Tens of thousands of Polish soldiers (under the direction of the Polish government in exile) fought with the Allies throughout the war, so I suppose it's a good those people left and fought.

Just some random thoughts, everything is complicated.

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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by masonic on Friday May 29, 2020 @07:17AM (#23348634)
The Poles also fought a two-front war better than the French fought their one-front war thereafter.
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by gambiting on Thursday May 28, 2020 @11:07AM (#23338189)
Absolutely, those are some very good points, thanks!
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by DamnYuppie on Thursday May 28, 2020 @12:00PM (#23338820)
The point that your argument misses is that it was fighting the invariably resolved the issues and paved the way for the exiled governments and people to return.
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by gambiting on Thursday May 28, 2020 @03:50PM (#23341733)
Yes, I guess it does. I guess the overall point is that the time was still needed though - Poland couldn't have fought for its independence at the time(there were 3 uprisings and the all failed) so maybe the situation is similar - Hong Kong citizens have no chance against China right now - but in 20 years the situation may be different. Of course it's impossible to predict.
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by mcfly1985 on Thursday May 28, 2020 @10:32AM (#23337724)
Sure am glad the people who fought the revolutionary war against England didn’t think like you.
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by gambiting on Thursday May 28, 2020 @10:38AM (#23337828)
I feel like you're trying to be inflammatory just for the sake of it. There are good reasons why Poland and Polish people couldn't fight like Americans did against the British, it would turn into an essay if I wanted to list them all. But I think most importantly, that approach worked - we have harboured Polish culture wherever we could and now we're a major country of 50 million people.

Not to offend anyone, but Americans haven't really demonstrated any ability or will to fight for their rights as a nation in the past 100 years, this posturing I see all the time from Americans about freedom is like a peacock displaying its feathers, not having done anything to earn them - you were just born with them.

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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by dbcurtis on Thursday May 28, 2020 @10:40AM (#23337846)
That is an overly simplistic analysis. The American colonies had strategic resources and positioning available to fight. Poland at the time did not.

Examine Hong Kong’s strategic resources at the moment and tell us how you would deploy them in a fight.

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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by sgift on Thursday May 28, 2020 @10:50AM (#23337956)
Also, distances were vastly bigger (maybe that's included in positioning?). England had to ferry troops and material over the Atlantic at a time when a ship voyage was long and could very well end in disaster. China could move troops over in a matter of days without any real risk.
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by JumpCrisscross on Thursday May 28, 2020 @10:45AM (#23337896)
America also had the financial and military support of France.
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by mcfly1985 on Thursday May 28, 2020 @11:03AM (#23338122)
You act like the American revolution is the only instance of this. The French Revolution is another example of people fighting for change.
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Re:U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens by JumpCrisscross on Thursday May 28, 2020 @11:07AM (#23338196)
The French Revolution was largely fought internally. Hong Kong’s situation is more like occupation than civil strife.
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