News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by SpicyLemonZest on Monday May 25, 2020 @09:45AM (#23301020)
Well, for example, it'd be nice if people were allowed to say "make America great again". It seems like a serious problem if such a vague, generic statement is interpreted as a coded message about Mexicans.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by oblio on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:22AM (#23301981)
I'm not even American, but to give a counter example, Black Lives Matter is also a pretty benign sounding expression that received a lot of vitriol.

And even common words can get very negative associations over time. Sometimes language has to change because of that. It's a pity, especially if you like the specific term, but that's life.

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by koheripbal on Monday May 25, 2020 @01:22PM (#23302949)
I think the name of the group received a lot of vitriol because they paraded down every major US city chanting "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon." - insinuating that police officers should be "fried like bacon".

Of course there are idiots on Twitter that debate the semantics of the name - but those are largely teenagers and young adults.

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by vetinari on Monday May 25, 2020 @12:02PM (#23302332)
> Black Lives Matter is also a pretty benign sounding expression that received a lot of vitriol.

Because on both sides of the barricade, there are partisans that interpret everything as dog whistling. Whether it is "Black Lives Matter" or "It's OK to be white", same thing.

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by alabaster_punt on Monday May 25, 2020 @05:19PM (#23305110)
Are you suggesting "It's OK to be white" isn't a dogwhistle?
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by vetinari on Monday May 25, 2020 @05:58PM (#23305381)
If you see any difference between those two, I suggest you read mistermann's comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23301679 and think about it really hard. If you are willing to confront your bias, that is.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by alabaster_punt on Monday May 25, 2020 @06:08PM (#23305456)
One of them was a reaction to a well-evidenced trend of excessive police force against black people. The other one is literally a neo-nazi dog whistle intended to promote the theory that there is a conspiracy against white people in western society and draw well meaning white people into nazi ideology. I'm not biased on this point, I simply know the facts. I suggest you read the ADL's coverage of it, and similarly "think really hard". https://www.adl.org/blog/from-4chan-another-trolling-campaig...
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by occasionopinion on Monday May 25, 2020 @06:46PM (#23305700)
There is a conspiracy against white people in Western society.

On social media, no one would bat an eye at the quote "white people are trash". The quote "black people are trash" is (correctly) an instant ban. If Sarah Jeong wrote that she "loved being cruel to old brown people", she would not be working for the NYT. Take any socially accepted joke about white people, and replace white with any other race to make it no longer socially acceptable.

There is a different standard applied to white people than other races. That's an objective fact.

You can argue that this is justified due to differences in societal power, which is not an unreasonable argument at all, but to deny that it exists is willful ignorance.

The reason that "it is okay to be white" is so effective is that it does have poignancy to young, impressionable white people who inhabit an online world filled with vitriol directed at them, so when you then call it a "racist" statement, it only serves to alienate them and drive recruitment to the alt-right. The correct response to "it is okay to be white" is not "that's a racist statement that you can't say" but "yes, obviously, moron".

White nationalism is really just the dumbest shit ever, but this complete and utter refusal to understand the root causes of the movement only helps them. It is, quite literally, what the terrorists want.

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by alabaster_punt on Monday May 25, 2020 @06:49PM (#23305719)
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and congratulate you on falling for the con.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by vetinari on Monday May 25, 2020 @06:31PM (#23305609)
If you went through the process that the comment says, you might find out that you do not simply know the facts and that you are in fact biased. Do check your sources, their agenda and how that affects their framing of their reporting.

But whatever, enjoy your day.

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by alabaster_punt on Monday May 25, 2020 @06:48PM (#23305714)
I have to wonder why you're so determined to defend a phrase coined by neo-nazis, used by the Ku Klux Klan and other known white nationalists, and whether or not you have a bias of your own.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by vetinari on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:22AM (#23310775)
They breath, too. By breathing, you defend them too. Oh, and Hitler was vegetarian. Any other vegetarian is literally Hitler.

Do you see how absurd this kind of reasoning is?

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by alabaster_punt on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:58AM (#23311167)
Do you see how absurd it is to present an anti-racist slogan and a racist slogan as equivalent? Your logical contortions require the removal of all context from the discussion. Context is important. In this case, the context is that the overwhelming majority of this phrase's usage is as a white nationalist slogan. You're deliberately ignoring this in an incredible attempt to paint anti-racist activists as equivalent to racist activists.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by KirinDave on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:32PM (#23307152)
Why would it be nice?
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by bjourne on Monday May 25, 2020 @01:00PM (#23302787)
Try wearing a shirt that says "Power to the people" to your work and see how that works out for you.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by SpicyLemonZest on Monday May 25, 2020 @01:42PM (#23303097)
...pretty well? I don't know if we work in different areas or what, but in my experience tech companies are very accepting of non-Trump-aligned political expression. I've seen people wear communist slogans to work before and they've never gotten in trouble for it.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by bjourne on Monday May 25, 2020 @03:11PM (#23303910)
That appears to be false. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/05/amazon-pr... Unless you mean that union organizing is Trump-aligned political expression. I also wonder what the "communist slogan" was that you saw? In all places I've worked at wearing a shirt like that would be taboo.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by RandomTisk on Monday May 25, 2020 @09:55AM (#23301132)
Most isolated people on the left still believe Trump was referring to nazi's/white nationalists as "good people" when he made that "good people on both sides" comment. If they would just step out of their bubble for one moment they would realize they've been lied to. NYT articles like this are IMO designed to keep people from wanting to leave the bubble.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by pas on Monday May 25, 2020 @12:48PM (#23302686)
"You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group …".

Do you mean this quote?

He meant the silent white supremacists, who protested quietly (with long guns, and who afterwards were pretty proud of themselves that they haven't mowed people down despite having been hit by bricks).

There's a 207 page long review assembled by a commission about the events, and it found no peaceful pro-statue protesters.

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by jimmydddd on Monday May 25, 2020 @03:14PM (#23303949)
Sort of, but not exactly. I think he meant this. https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-ho...
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by SpicyLemonZest on Monday May 25, 2020 @10:00AM (#23301180)
That aspect I care much less about. Believing the worst about politicians you don't like isn't political correctness, just... politics.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by scarface74 on Monday May 25, 2020 @12:18PM (#23302482)
Thought Experiment #1: What would happen if you said some of things at work that Trump has said on Twitter in front of someone in HR. What do you think would happen?

Thought Experiment #2: If you were a manager and your team was as a chaotic, unqualified, and had the turnover that the WH has, what do you think would happen?

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by myko on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:03AM (#23301793)
No, folks on the left were pointing out, correctly, that calling folks who willingly marched with nazis who were chanting "blood and soil" good people was a serious dog whistle to rightwing extremism.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by RandomTisk on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:28AM (#23302028)
Except he didn't. He specifically condemned them. Some journalist took part of his statement, cut off the rest and riled up a bunch of people over a false narrative. I still see someone in the media who should know better by now repeat this lie on occasion.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by myko on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:35AM (#23302098)
Saying you condemn the nazis while absolving the folks who marched with them _is_ a dog whistle to rightwing extremism. That's the entire point.

If they were good people they would've called the nazis out and kicked them out of their march, or refused to march with them. Instead they marched with the nazis.

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by hanifc on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:45PM (#23307219)
It's pretty surreal to have just finished reading the blog post[1] on this topic, that was posted just a little bit higher, then to come here and see it played out.

[1]https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-ho...

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by myko on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @08:55PM (#23318282)
> He stated his assumption and then spoke to the assumption.

This is a pathetic attempt to absolve trump of his clear racism and dog whistles to extremists. If he assumes wrongly it's okay to say whatever he wants? That points even more directly to a dog whistle. Shame on whoever wrote that as a defense.

Joining up with a bunch of white nationalists to march in support of a statue of a man who is famous for waging a traitorous war against the United States in support of the institution of slavery doesn't make one a "very fine person", indeed quite the opposite.

While you may not believe trump is a racist sending dog whistle after dog whistle to white nationalists those white nationalists seem to think so: https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/12/politics/white-supremacists-c...

Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by champagneben on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:39AM (#23302139)
Do these folks on the left feel the same way about marching with anti-semites? I didn't hear much about that on the left.
Re:Joe Rogan Is the New Mainstream Media by myko on Monday May 25, 2020 @11:44AM (#23302180)
False equivalence - the blood and soil folks were marching and chanting explicit nazi phrases and pushing nazi ideas, there were no "good people" in that crowd - the point of the march was to push that agenda.

You're referring, I think, to the folks in the Women's March who joined the march but had a past of making anti-semitic comments. Those people did not show themselves to be anti-semites during the march, so the folks marching with them would not have known to disengage or call them out at the time (though they were widely called out afterwards, if you care to look into it). Contrast this with the folks trump called good people - the entire point of that march was to push nazi rhetoric, and the folks who joined them knew that, even if they don't self identify as nazis.

See the difference?