News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by qppo on Friday May 22, 2020 @09:19PM (#23278937)
Snowden's legal situation is up to him at this point. The only way for whistleblower precedent to be set is for him to stand trial.
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by mamurphy on Saturday May 23, 2020 @12:27AM (#23279891)
Current law does not allow him to raise the defense of whistleblowing at trial. This is ironclad precedent and won't be overturned without a new law being passed or the prosecution agreeing to it.

The government would get to tell the jury he gave away XYZ classified documents, and he would not be allowed to even mention why and would have no chance of getting that overturned on appeal.

Snowden has said he will come back and stand trial if he is allowed to raise whistleblowing as a defense. The government has not taken him up on that offer.

edit: First source google had to offer: https://whistleblower.org/in-the-news/wsj-op-ed-why-edward-s...

Excerpt:

>[M]embers of Congress, journalists and advocacy groups keep repeating the same argument: Mr. Snowden should turn himself in, mount a solid defense and all will be righted at trial.

That’s a fantasy. I served as legal adviser to two high-profile whistleblowers between 2010 and 2013, former NSA senior executive Thomas Drake and former CIA officer John Kiriakou, both charged with espionage. I also witnessed last year’s court-martial of U.S. Army Pfc. Bradley Manning (now known as Chelsea Manning), who faced charges of espionage and aiding the enemy. Here’s a run-through, to the extent that I am allowed to offer, of how such a shadowy proceeding would unfold.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by boolcow on Friday May 22, 2020 @09:25PM (#23278963)
It's really up to us citizens that benefited from his whistleblowing to bail him out. But of course we don't because we're not as good a society as we might be.
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by ultrarunner on Friday May 22, 2020 @09:54PM (#23279120)
Could you elaborate? His revelations were that the government kinda does what it wants despite the law; what is it that is up to me (or any other individual) to right the wrongs of that same government?
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by pembrook on Saturday May 23, 2020 @12:06AM (#23279822)
Any democratic government is simply a body elected to represent the wishes of the people.

If the government isn't righting its wrongs, it's because you (not necessarily you specifically, but "the people" as a whole) have explicitly put in power the people who are doing the bad things.

This is everybody's fault. Yours included. We all enabled this to happen.

That's the beauty of a democratic system. It clarifies and cuts through to the core of our culture. Americans fear the idea of foreign terrorists more than we fear privacy encroachment, and thus, we were delivered the results of that belief.

The system worked! It represented our wishes perfectly. The problem isn't "them" (the government). It's us.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by akiselev on Saturday May 23, 2020 @12:23AM (#23279876)
That may have been true for Americans living two hundred years ago when constituents voted for the people who birthed the two party system, but it certainly isn't today. Gerrymandering of House districts, the limit on the number of Representatives, the nature of the Senate in our bicameral legislature, and the electoral college all guarantee that some votes will count significantly more than others. That's not a democracy, it's a facade that replaced democracy a long time ago (and one could argue was never a democracy to begin with, since many people alive today gained the right to vote in living memory).
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by godelski on Saturday May 23, 2020 @03:09AM (#23280680)
There's two options when your government isn't doing what you (read "the people") want them to do:

1) Vote them out

2) Revolution

I'm rather a firm believer that option 1 is still on the table and we don't have to resort to likely bloody methods. But in either case it is up to the people in the end. I am not convinced that there's been coalitions formed to actually do #1. I'm not actually convinced most people are upset, even though I think they should be.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by ddingus on Saturday May 23, 2020 @02:04AM (#23280361)
Yes, it is a mess.

Still on us though. Unless we want to see the nation invaded, there really is no one else with standing to address the growing problem.

A class level action is needed. When things reach clearly, can't miss it, can't live with it levels of unacceptable, we may see that happen.

Or, maybe we see just enough placating and theatre to trundle along for decades.

Last time we moved like that, it was the 30's.

People struck the crap out of basically everyone, handing FDR position to go and get the New Deal done. Those strikes and actions were illegal and legal. A whole class in high solidarity acting right out.

His follow on was never seriously discussed and in the decades since, we have seen many moves to prevent a similar scenario from happening again.

What we do not know is whether that history can be repeated.

The response today might just be brutal.

It is all terribly expensive either way too.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by agensaequivocum on Saturday May 23, 2020 @12:53AM (#23280009)
We are not a democracy nor were we supposed to be.
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by dane-pgp on Saturday May 23, 2020 @03:53AM (#23280892)
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by agensaequivocum on Saturday May 23, 2020 @08:57PM (#23288131)
They are clearly reading Federalist 10 out of context. He clearly says, among other things, there is a mean between to little representation vs to much.

> It must be confessed that in this, as in most other cases, there is a mean, on both sides of which inconveniences will be found to lie. By enlarging too much the number of electors, you render the representative too little acquainted with all their local circumstances and lesser interests; as by reducing it too much, you render him unduly attached to these, and too little fit to comprehend and pursue great and national objects.

A democracy doesn't have representation. So while his definition maybe different than what we tend to understand today, neither is he arguing that "republic" is the same as what we mean by "democracy" today.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by chrisco255 on Friday May 22, 2020 @10:01PM (#23279161)
"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." -Benjamin Franklin

Protests and social pressure do work with the right amplitude.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by Mediterraneo10 on Saturday May 23, 2020 @06:50AM (#23281872)
There is no evidence that Benjamin Franklin ever said that. Please do not perpetuate spurious quotations.
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by chrisco255 on Saturday May 23, 2020 @03:39PM (#23285736)
Didn't realize that it wasn't sourced to him. I still think it's a good quote either way and given my understanding of Franklin from reading his autobiography, I reckon he would agree with it in spirit. He spent much of his life pushing against the British Empire and fighting for liberty.
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Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by na85 on Friday May 22, 2020 @11:43PM (#23279705)
It's hard for me to read the article you linked and draw any conclusions whatsoever about his motives. The whole article is just a series of vague insinuations hoping the reader is stupid enough and lacking in enough critical thinking skills to see two apparently contradictory facts like "he liked attention but played a lot of video games" and from there jump to the conclusion that he's a villain.
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by dependenttypes on Saturday May 23, 2020 @01:47AM (#23280274)
Is this supposed to be anything other than some sort of ad hominem? Why should his motives or character matter?
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by saagarjha on Friday May 22, 2020 @10:46PM (#23279396)
I see nothing in that article other than random tidbits about his life.
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Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by saagarjha on Friday May 22, 2020 @11:13PM (#23279555)
(That was an invitation for you to explain why you thought the article showed some sort of ulterior motive, if you didn't catch it.)
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by choward on Saturday May 23, 2020 @01:17AM (#23280115)
How many citizens outside of people who understand tech actually understand how big of a deal it was? Also, the media hardly covered it and pretty much presented him as a traitor every time they did. What percent of the U.S. population would you guess has heard of the name Edward Snowden?
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by deadbunny on Saturday May 23, 2020 @08:21AM (#23282334)
I think it's worse than that. The things Snowden leaked were simply the details of what I would think most people assumed to be true anyway. Not in a conspiracy theory way, but just an accepted thing. Most people don't really know the difference and supposed limitations of each three letter agency's powers.

Whether that's due to the media's portrail of them in film and TV over the years with their omnipotent powers or just the view that the government is an all seeing entity.

So in most people's view he just leaked the governments methods, not the fact they were doing it (and abusin their power in doing so). Because of this the Government can spin this as him leaking their secret sauce rather than them being in the wrong.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by ddingus on Saturday May 23, 2020 @01:53AM (#23280311)
This.

A high percentage of Americans are informed by domestic "news" and that newstainment has declared Snowden to be the bad guy as you said.

Among ordinary people not into politics and or tech, few know his name. If they do, they almost always also talk about him being a traitor, threat, etc.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by nmfisher on Saturday May 23, 2020 @02:34AM (#23280500)
Snowden disclosed programs that were unsavoury to some. But that doesn’t mean they’re illegal (even if only by reason of black letter law technicality). That’s not to mention all the other unrelated classified information. It’s not surprising that he has zero defence under whistleblower laws.

To take advantage of whistleblower laws (or at least, gain public sympathy as one), the criminality you’re uncovering would need to be far, far worse.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by dgellow on Saturday May 23, 2020 @03:29AM (#23280771)
The NSA has been revealed to gather and store crazy amount of US citizens data with zero oversight.

That was completely illegal at the time, and I hope that it still is.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by nmfisher on Saturday May 23, 2020 @05:47AM (#23281597)
We may want that to be true, but some US courts have disagreed.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/second-circuit-rules-united-stat...

See this for one recent decision indicating that the NSA bulk collection program was both constitutional and legal.

The unfortunate reality is that it falls into a legal grey area and has, in fact, been held by certain courts to be legal.

Which comes back to my original point - any whistleblower who wants to exit with a clean slate really needs to be uncovering unambiguously and horrendously illegal activity. “Possibly illegal” PRISM just wasn’t bad enough for Snowden to get the political or legal protection of public sympathy.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by dgellow on Saturday May 23, 2020 @12:18PM (#23284153)
Damn, that’s crazy. Thanks for sharing this article.

> Which comes back to my original point - any whistleblower who wants to exit with a clean slate really needs to be uncovering unambiguously and horrendously illegal activity.

The issue here is that nothing will ever be “unambiguous and horrendous illegal” enough regarding NSA behaviors, given that the goal post is always moving.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by ta17711771 on Friday May 22, 2020 @09:27PM (#23278980)
Want to start a foundation?
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by sneak on Friday May 22, 2020 @10:34PM (#23279333)
He can be pardoned right now without ever being put on trial. GP didn’t say anything about setting precedent.

Subjecting himself to the risks of trial would be insane, considering the tremendous amount of illegal things that were done (and continue to be done) to Assange.

Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by na85 on Friday May 22, 2020 @11:36PM (#23279658)
I think we all know that his chances of a fair trial are close to zero.
Re:FBI cannot even look at your phone lock screen without a ... by ddingus on Saturday May 23, 2020 @02:05AM (#23280369)
Yup. But him making a point of it does raise general awareness.

Good move on his part given his current scenario.