University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

Re:University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT by awillen on Thursday May 21, 2020 @07:03PM (#23266608)

I'm obviously speaking about the SAT/ACT in the context of the US system. The entire Finnish education system is extremely different than the one in the US - to say that they don't use the SAT and have better educational outcomes while ignoring everything else is just not a valid comparison. It would be equally valid to say "Finland teaches school in Finnish and they have better outcomes, so we should be teaching school in Finnish!"

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Re:University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT by geomark on Thursday May 21, 2020 @07:17PM (#23266755)

There some people who assert that it is in fact the Finnish language that gives them an advantage in early schooling, that the language is much more regular and easier to learn that it gives school children something like a 2 year advantage over English learners.

Not disagreeing with you at all. Just wanted to point out another facet of the debate.

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Re:University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT by Al-Khwarizmi on Friday May 22, 2020 @04:24AM (#23269819)

On the other hand, it is sometimes said (in folk circles, I'll admit, I haven't seen papers about this) that the good performance of Chinese students is related to having to learn a very difficult writing system, which acts as a cognitive "exercise" or stimulation.

So what's better to learn as a child, an easy to learn language or a really difficult one? Or maybe an easy one orally but a difficult writing system? I have no idea, but it's an interesting question indeed.

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Re:University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT by throw872579 on Friday May 22, 2020 @06:47AM (#23270658)

A key advantage seems to be no private schools:

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-am...

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Re:University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT by andrewlgood on Friday May 22, 2020 @07:58PM (#23278483)

FYI, the article referenced while informative is from 2011. Finland performance on the PISA has dropped steadily since then. Article also does not discuss whether wealthier families hire tutors or other similar resources to assist their children.

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Re:University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT by Mirioron on Thursday May 21, 2020 @07:34PM (#23266920)

It's an interesting idea. The other major language similar to Finnish is Estonian. Recently Estonia has been above Finland in PISA results, but I am still extremely skeptical of this idea. From a grammar standpoint I'm not sure that Finnish is actually easier to learn than English.

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Re:University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT by larkost on Thursday May 21, 2020 @07:45PM (#23267002)

The other similar language to Finnish is Hungarian (that and a language spoken in Mongolia). My wife is Hungarian, so I have some exposure and I think the grammar is probably simpler in some ways (no "perfect" tenses for example), it is the spelling that probably would push it over the line.

Spelling in English is an atrocious amalgam of contributions from a number of languages. My son is learning that in school so I am getting a front-row seat to that (especially given me out of work and remote schooling). He is constantly running into places where the rule he just learned does not apply.

Oddly, I have heard the argument before that Japanese and Chinese students are at an advantage due to the complexity of writing their languages. The argument being that their brans are being trained by that to work harder. I am not sure I buy either argument.

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Re:University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT by geomark on Thursday May 21, 2020 @09:05PM (#23267637)

There is a somewhat related argument that kids who grow up bilingual also get a harder brain workout that initially slows their language learning due to having to parse two languages but later gives them an advantage. I think maybe, but seems really hard to measure something like that.

My kid is growing up bilingual, with English his stronger language. We both grouch about the "atrocious amalgam of contributions" that is the English language when he wants an explanation why the words 'rough', 'though', 'through', 'thought' and 'plough' all have different pronunciations.

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