News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by saurik on Thursday May 14, 2020 @04:47AM (#23177071)
I agree, and will go further in that I believe they actually should have such an obligation: it should be a consumer right to find out why you were denied access to a platform--or a restaurant, or a barber shop, or a wedding cake maker, or whatever else that someone is refusing you service due to, as a business operating in the public--and that whatever reason that is must be something that either 1) has nothing to do with the customer and can be shown to have nothing to do with the customer (such as "we do not have enough workers to take more orders and we didn't do anyone other than you") or 2) is clearly and obviously "correctable" (so like "because you are gay" doesn't count); if the platform (or service or business) refuses to tell you, or their reason isn't "correctable", there should be heavy penalties attached for what amounts to opaque discrimination.

(FWIW, I appreciate the idea that eventually it would be useful to be able to ban a bad actor entirely from something to exclude the possibility of future harm: the past tense of "correctable" was "avoidable", and it needs to be very clear exactly what was done wrong and what could have been done differently for someone to end up in the situation of being banned from the usage of a platform, service, or business: the alternative where people get to apply secret and obscure reasons to refuse service is madness.)

Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by Wowfunhappy on Thursday May 14, 2020 @07:37AM (#23178257)
I was ready to get behind this line of reasoning, but then I thought about e.g. comment sections. Anyone who has moderated a forum will know that trolls find every possible way to walk right up to the line without technically crossing it.

If you say "personal attacks aren't allowed", they'll say "I wasn't attacking him personally, I just suggested that anyone who says [the thing he said] should consider getting evaluated by a doctor for mental retardation."

At some point you just have to say "I know what you're doing, you're clearly not acting in good faith, and I have to ban you." Are all of those people now potential lawsuits?

Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by bostonpete on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:41AM (#23180113)
Yeah, this is the issue. They're not going to catch every dirty thing extensions (perhaps unwittingly) do. If they are able to detect one or more problems with an extension, there's a good chance that there are other problems that were undetected. Forcing extension authors to go back and think about what they could be doing better rather than just telling them the minimal set of changes that are needed seems like it can only result in more well-behaved extensions across the board.
Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by thayne on Thursday May 14, 2020 @11:58AM (#23181075)
There should at least be some appeals process that involves a human then. In this case they fixed legitimate cases where they had too many permissions (including removing some functionality), and were still rejected. What if the reason they were flagged was because of a legitimate usage of a permission that the automated (or manual) system wasn't aware of? At the very least there should be a way for a flagged extension author to go through a process where they explain why they need each permission they request, and if that is they are still rejected, told why their explanation wasn't good enough.

This is especially important given google's market power in the browser industry. What if the extension is from Google's competitor? Google could ban the extension without a legitimate reason to hurt their competition.

Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by shkkmo on Thursday May 14, 2020 @07:54AM (#23178387)
> If you say "personal attacks aren't allowed", they'll say "but I wasn't attacking him personally, I just suggested that anyone who says [the thing he said] should consider getting evaluated by a doctor for mental retardation."

1) That pretty clearly qualifies as a personal attack

2) There is a significant difference between a forum and a business critical software distribution platform.

Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by Wowfunhappy on Thursday May 14, 2020 @08:38AM (#23178699)
> That pretty clearly qualifies as a personal attack

Okay, let's take the obscurity up one level: I used to moderate a very small internet forum, where there was one user who had certain mannerisms in his writing. I also had reason to suspect this user was mildly suicidal.

A troll began to mimic these mannerisms as a way to make fun of that user, and talk about how horrible their life was. The troll wasn't overt about it, but if you knew the history between these two, you could tell what was going on. The troll of course feigned innocence, but as he'd been given warnings before, I made the call to ban him.

I firmly believe I was acting within the forum's stated policies—but I am not 100% confident a judge would agree. If these types of actions could lead to lawsuits, I don't know what I would have done.

---

> There is a significant difference between a forum and a business critical software distribution platform.

Great—but where's the line? Is Youtube critical, for example?

Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by thayne on Thursday May 14, 2020 @11:14AM (#23180500)
It sounds like this case would comply with the proposed rules to me. You informed the bad actor of what he was doing wrong, the behaviour was correctable, and he continued to exhibit said bad behaviour, so you banned him.
Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by maaarghk on Thursday May 14, 2020 @08:42AM (#23178745)
It would be common enough to have laws that say only businesses of a certain size are fully obliged to comply. GDPR has this for some clauses, for example. I guess the idea is along the lines of the market determines whether you're critical by letting you become a huge company?
Re:Let's guess what Google requires in 14 days or they kill ... by andrewflnr on Thursday May 14, 2020 @10:05AM (#23179648)
Don't fixate on particular examples when someone is clearly trying to talk about a broad trend.