The baseline mortality rate for an 80 year old is about 0.5% per month. The mortality rate for an 80 year old with coronavirus is about 15%, with nearly all deaths occurring within a month. So treating all deaths in coronavirus patients as being caused by coronavirus would only overstate the true case fatality rate by 3% or so. The ratio is similar for younger ages. Not sure why Joe Rogan or Elon Musk’s opinion would be relevant here.

Pre-existing conditions are not omitted from the 0.5%/month mortality rate. They just aren’t as impactful because most 80 year olds don’t have immediately life threatening medical conditions. For every 80 year old who will die this month from cancer (or Bubonic plague, sure, why not) there are 199 others who won’t. But if those 200 people all have COVID-19, it will kill another 30 of them. Attributing 30 vs. 31 deaths to COVID-19 just doesn’t matter that much.

80 year olds have better coverage than younger Americans on average because of Medicare, despite Medicare’s generally lower reimbursement rates compared to private insurance, simply because so many younger Americans don’t have insurance at all. And I think you’re dramatically overestimating the strength of the incentives at play if you think medical professionals are defrauding the federal government en masse to line their employers’ pockets.

You probably don't want to rely on that last statement. Having worked in the hospital sector, they in fact do and are proud of the fact (I've literally sat in presentations about the software and automation employed to do so as well as all hands meetings touting this as competitive advantage) that they upcode as much as possible without risking jail time to maximize revenue. The existence of all those specialty centers around hospital networks are specifically to support this model as well.

You seem to not know how covid works (or medicine and/or medical examination) and that's fine, but please don't use your ignorance to sway others on subjects you have no knowledge in.

Dr Birx on the coronavirus task force says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as 'COVID-19' deaths, regardless of cause. See video-proof in [1]. This is due to the highly unusual CDC guidelines on how to classify coronavirus deaths.

This is what parent refers to, and is not a knowledge-free comment.

[1] https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/feds-classify-all-coronavirus-...

Can't reply directly to Ikiris: It seems unfair to ask me another question without addressing my reference to Dr Birx statement. She is the one who's credentials this claim rest upon.

Edit: reply to Ikiris child comment. Innuendo is not a valid argument against evidence and does not change what Dr Birx said. You have the video of her saying it, so your claim this is some lone voice saying something is not a valid argument.

It's pointless to respond to the statements of anyone supporting Trump in his employ as a primary criteria for his employ is on its face the willingness to say anything he wishes.

More generally, it is not the burden to disprove a lone voice, it is the burden to state that expert consensus is wrong and why, with data. You've done neither and instead relied on single confirming source instead of trying to falsify your position and failing.

> It's pointless to respond to the statements of anyone supporting Trump in his employ as a primary criteria for his employ is on its face the willingness to say anything he wishes.

Innuendo is not a valid argument against evidence and does not change what Dr Birx said.

> More generally, it is not the burden to disprove a lone voice, it is the burden to state that expert consensus is wrong and why, with data.

Dr Birx is on the coronavirus task force and if she is not a recognized expert in your eyes I do not know who is.

You have the video of her saying it, so your claim this is some lone voice saying something is not a valid argument.

> You've done neither and instead relied on single confirming source instead of trying to falsify your position and failing.

You have no grounds for this claim. Please refrain from unfounded personal attacks in lieu of a reasoned argument on this forum, this is not reddit.

Exactly what kind of death due to covid do you think shouldn't be classified as a covid death, and what are your medical credentials or evidentiary basis to justify such a stance?

Even the Fox news comment doctor said it's a reasonable stance, because the examples given about kidney and heart problems which are supposed to seem obviously unrelated to general public are clearly not to someone with medical background.

Follow standard CDC procedure [1] and research cause of death for every death.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_me.pdf

You're not providing any evidence to back up your statement, except the opinions of Rogan and Musk; to my knowledge neither is an expert on health statistics. Could you provide a source to back up this claim?

You're saying coronavirus mortality figures are fabricated by state and hospital personnel, adding it to death certificates when it was not the cause. What's led you to that conclusion?

That isn't what I said. I'm saying that coronavirus is being listed as the primary cause of death in bad-faith.

According to the CDC guidelines[1]: In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.”

My conclusion is based on the broadness of that statement alongside the fact that hospitals receive $13k-$39k per Covid death. Plus my wife works at a large hospital and I'm getting the inside-scoop.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

So you are saying every doctor reading that instruction is in bad faith writing "probable" when in fact, they don't actually think it's probable?

Or do say all doctors writing "probable" are actually deluded?

He is saying that as Dr Birx on the coronavirus task force says [1] the government classify all coronavirus patient deaths as ‘COVID-19’ deaths, regardless of cause.

This is due to a highly unusual CDC guideline that stipulates this, and it may mask collateral deaths due to lockdown measures that could be avoided if we like normal looked for the true cause.

The reason why this is relevant is that an overwhelming percentage of coronavirus deaths also had other serious health conditions.

[1] https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/feds-classify-all-coronavirus-...