If you are an expert, there has never been a better time to move to Linux. If you are a novice, there still hasn't been a better time, but its also still not for everyone.
The situation is like this: https://preview.redd.it/79011affulj11.png?width=800&format=p...
nVidia: I've been gaming on nVidia proprietary drivers without any issues. Though most demanding games were CS:GO and The Talos Principle.
AMD: At work I'm on workstation with some 2 years old Radeon and AMDGPU drivers (mainline). No issues so far.
Intel: I'm using it on my laptop. No issues so far.
What poor graphics drivers do you have in mind?
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=dota2-ma...
at present there are about 6500 working games in Linux that take advantage of advanced 3d graphics. These include the latest Doom, Fallout 76, and Borderlands 3. Im currently running a Radeon RX 470 and playing everything from Aragami to P.A.M.E.L.A. and Wolfenstein New Colossus at 60fps or higher.
You can still use X though, speaking from experience Nvidia drivers don't work at all on Wayland.
Furthermore this is a great resource which will certainly be useful to OP
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/03/15/linux...
IMO Intel is generally very well supported with the open-source kernel driver and amdgpu is getting there. This feels like a trope that always gets repeated but never updated, kind of like "you need CLI to use Linux".
> the whole Wayland thing is in a weird spot right now too
The whole Wayland thing is already much smoother for many than X11 ever was and it actually takes security seriously. I am running GNOME on Wayland full time since 2018 and by this point there's nothing I miss from X11, any specifics?
There are plenty of applications that still depend on Xwayland, and the nvidia proprietary can't accelerate these. There are some other weird stability issues related to the nvidia driver as of mid last year at least. Wayland is missing a bunch of features from X, which bothers some people. I personally miss network transparency from X. That said, I do run wayland full time, and have for a few years now. I just can't recommend it without reservations.
I can't comment on catalyst, or AMDGPU on current generation AMD gaming graphics cards. What I can say is that you can pretty much blindly assume that whatever gpu you want to buy will work well under Windows.
> IMO Intel is generally very well supported
I would add AMDGPU to that list as well. Still, AMDGPU is new, and Intel doesn't offer a high end graphics card. nVidia proprietary causes problems, such as those it causes for wayland. I am very happy with my AMDGPU compatible WX2100 for linux, but it is certainly not a good gaming GPU.
I understand it may be the only option for high-end gaming, but in that case one probably doesn't have switchable graphics, which causes the most issues, so X/Xwayland is the one compromise one has to make.
This however does not mean that Linux graphics is a mess in general. I have both Intel and amdgpu machines that work out of the box, no problem. And this does not ever gets asked in relation to macOS, because everyone "knows" nvidia just wasn't a thing there in recent years. So perhaps we should assume nvidia just isn't a thing as well, unless you're willing to put up with crap?
So does Linux and Linux on the desktop work for everybody? No. Does it work as good for a high-end gaming machine as Windows? No. Does Windows work as the most productive fronend/backend/systems OS for programming out there? No. Does Linux? Yeah.
So while they both have their strengths and weaknesses, Linux works perfectly well for a lot of use-cases, the graphics driver situation included.
As for Wayland not being network-transparent, the fact that it worked in X in the way it did was in fact a massive hack and a security hole and while sometimes convenient, I personally didn't need GUI over SSH almost ever, apart from playing around, so I'd take a proper security architecture, like Wayland has, over network transparency.
This is also not a feature supported by Windows/macOS, so not really a point against Linux in my book.
The early complaints, like screenshots etc. re Wayland were all resolved some time ago too.
No you don't. You could use Windows.
> So perhaps we should assume nvidia just isn't a thing as well.
Sure, that is what I do. How do you explain that to a novice that is just trying to run linux on their computer for the first time?
Look, I use linux full time for most tasks, both at home and at work. Professionally I am a kernel engineer. I am very pro linux, and pro new linux users. I think that we do linux a disservice by pretending that there aren't issues. The simple fact is that the linux graphics experience is not seamless like it is on other operating systems. We shouldn't pretend that it is just because experts can make it work.
Of course, provided you don't mind the ads, the telemetry, the updates that delete your files [1], this is assuming you're actually interested in Linux.
> How do you explain that to a novice that is just trying to run linux
That perhaps you do look for Linux HW before purchasing and do not install Linux on any old crap?
Look, I could hand somebody a Chromebook and ask them to try how well Windows would run on it. The experience wouldn't be great. Same on a Talos II or some other obviously problematic HW for Windows where Linux fares much better, but it's a pointless game.
Most people don't run into this situation because BestBuy laptops come preinstalled with Windows. If they came with Linux, there'd be a reverse situation.
But with macOS people somehow don't assume they can run it on a random POS HW and indeed know that it's best to get one designed to run macOS.
Why is the standard Linux is evaluated against always different?
Just get a Linux-compatible machine and you're good, that's it. I know as I've done it many times now.
It's not about pretending there aren't issues. But I've realized we're being held back by always trying to snatch this mythical 'new user' with his BestBuy laptop, or someone with a knowingly problematic HW, (unless nVidia cooperates, there's little we could do) and Windows will continue to come preinstalled on the majority of PCs, so a mass exodus isn't happening anytime soon.
What we could do, instead of being this "honest" and just reinforcing the idea that Linux doesn't work, we could be even more frank and just say avoid this vendor, but this and this one is fine.
Reinforcing the idea that Linux is crap because of some shitty corporation that refuses to support it gives too much importance and power to said corporation when they don't deserve it.
1 - https://www.tomsguide.com/news/massive-windows-10-fail-new-u...
They work fine, haven't had a problem with them for years, using nvidia cards. Most distros just ship the proprietary drivers now, and those just work.
There just aren't masses of native games. That said, Steam now has a built in version of wine called "Proton" that's worth checking out.
The arguments also ignore some of the great things about Linux. One of the things that I marvel at is how easy it is to setup and maintain a Linux system. Things like software typically being installed and updated through a single source is a tremendous time saver. While many device drivers are lacking specialized features, most hardware will work out of the box. There are also fewer concerns about what is happening behind the scenes. Walkthroughs like this one are fairly common in the Windows world: disable advertising, delay updates, block telemetry, improve performance.
None of this is meant to imply Linux is good and Windows is bad. Both platforms have their benefits and drawbacks. Neither is ideal for everyone. It's all about which trade-offs you're willing to accept.
https://youtu.be/5PmHRSeA2c8?t=474
It is 100% to the point and nothing has changed in 6 years since (and not only on debian), except that the mess is being solved by docker. Which is crazy. And windows is heading into same direction (when I have seen the manifests the first thing I have said was... omg... .dll.1.4.3)
Just additional info, to help you get into my mindset - system level developer for linux AND windows for 25 years.
(anyway, I have thrown tomatoes into directions of two largest fanboy camps, guess what will happen? =/ )
Linux is often installed on shoddy hardware that Windows no longer runs acceptably on and then people complain why it runs shoddily compared to their new Macbook/DELL XPS that they just purchased.
This very topic shows that Windows is a mess too, there's now been multiple updates that deleted user data as well. Why is that not a mess? Or why is so much more attention paid to the Linux mess? macOS allowed users to log in without a password, leaked encrypted HDD secrets, borked curl & SSH, borked user machines with an update, throttled user machines etc. and that's just from the top of my head. And that's bearing in mind that Apple controls almost all the variables.
So yeah, I don't like design of systemd. But hell, compared to dealing with Windows, it's precious.
I feel like many who level this charge have unfortunately never really looked into its design or compared it realistically to what came before, because I can tell you that if I am comparing the ability to write a systemd service in a declarative way and having it working with the same set of commands across all major distros, I'll take that over having shoddy quality bash scripts that vary across distros just slightly enough to annoy and that rely on a patchwork of PID files that is very easy to mess up, I am taking systemd any day of the week.
I am not saying it's perfect. I am just saying it is generally better than what came before.
If Microsoft cannot not stop Windows computers from becoming controlled by a botnet, the logical solution is to create their own. Well, that is what it looks like.
Big tech companies will tell users that they will "protect" them from this, that and the other thing (including protecting users from themselves), but they cannot protect users from the company. Obviously, showing ads demonstrates that the user, what Microsoft knows about her, is now a "product". Nevertheless, it is fair to ask why any user would prefer to control their own computer 100% instead of letting Microsoft control it for them. It is possible that, outside of HN commenters and voters, most Windows users are ambivalent.
I can remember when Windows had no way to access the internet, only local area networks. It was much faster. Why not temporarily bring down the interface to the internet gateway when it is not needed, or just delete the default gateway from the routing table. For example, if one is only using a program that does not need internet access, e.g., a word processor, spreadsheet, dictionary, calculator, etc., there is no need to have a connection to the internet. A script could be used to automate this procedure. This way the user has some control over when Microsoft can install updates, send telemetry data, etc., i.e., when the company can "take control". When the user is done with her offline work or game playing, she can bring up the interface or re-add the default gateway and let Microsoft have control.
> When the user is done with her offline work or game playing, she can bring up the interface or re-add the default gateway and let Microsoft have control.
By that reasoning deleting System32 folder is also an option, and should make your computer 10 times faster /s
I remember getting angry when I first had to ask the computer "pretty please, could you shut down," and having that possibly fail, rather than just throwing the power switch.
I remember getting angry when I first had to ask the computer "pretty please, could you eject the disk," with a non-zero chance that no, the computer is busy and you can't have your disk back.
I remember when undelete was an option, and delete was delete.
Now everything is a request. Everything second-guesses the user. Every button and switch is soft button that puts "software with lots of excuses" between you and what you want to command the computer to do. Every software iteration puts the user further and further into the backseat as a passenger rather than where they should be as the driver.
It does my bidding.
I was always under the impression that shutdown -h ran more shutdown scripts?
It would of course be nice if the GUI just consistently did what it's supposed to, but oh well...
Also recently "shut down" became "hibernate without fully taking the filesystem offline". Because clearly, that's what I meant. Not actually shut down.
```flatpak permission-set flatpak updates $APPID no```
Everyone 20 year ago on slashdot was worried about software and hardware drm, windows 10 is the first version of windows where they are trying to turn the PC into a mobile locked down platform because of the success of walled gardens like steam, world of warcraft, and the appstores like apple/google play.
The level of stupid on hacker news is disturbing, we used to get complete PC games in the 90's and early 2000's before the public fell for mmo scam of the late 90's which put PC gaming on the path of massive game theft.
Valve is basically a criminal game stealing empire by infecting games with client-server code. The whole industry wants to take us to mainframe dumb client computing.
https://tifca.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ClienttoCloud_V...
Uhh.. Valve release all their game server binaries for anyone to run, and sometimes even the source code (Half-Life, Half-Life 2). If you're going to rag on any games company, it shouldn't be them.
> Valve did so because they had steam money to rely on, they were boiling the frog slowly.
Citation needed. Valve have been very good to the TF2/Dota 2 communities. Again, you _can_ run the servers for these products. Worst comes to worst, if Valve turns evil, then pirating the software is easy.
There's good points to be had that Overwatch is terrible for not releasing the server, but Valve are not.
You don't grasp the reason quake champions is a server locked game is because of gamers buying client-server coded software.
You're a corporate fanboy. You don't grasp the reason Doom 2016 and no level editor is specifically because of the last 15 years of the war on PC game ownerhsip that began with mmo's in the late 90's.
That all those "MMO/freetoplay" games on steam would have been boxed products with lan/server exe's in a former era, of the public had not taken them up to begin with, valve would have never come up with STEAM. Steam was a direct reaction to ultima online.
Valves long term plan was to remove ownership from his customers, and valve no longer needs to produce games because their long term agenda was making money, they want to be the middleman that skims money from every game sold.
Notice what they did to TF2 and now the are making artifact (totally microtransaction based game).
Notice how all that money from Dota 2 and TF2 were the end game, you don't get that STEAM malware client, was for valve to ultimately to get to in game stores. Valve was very careful in how they manipulated you into not owning your ow games so they could shove in game stores and mtx into them.
For other games like battlefield or modern warfare, and even overwatch... the problem remains that they can shut down the game remotely, aka Overwatch is not coded in an honest way where you own the game outright, you can't use its multiplayer as a stand alone app, aka you're using stolen software that is coded in a criminally screwed up way so that Activision maintains control.
The whole goal for the game industry was in game stores and mtx in every game and to do that they need to undermine game ownership.
Fortnite, Dota 2, and league of legends would have been fully boxed product games with LAN multiplayer/dedicated servers in a past era, aka for most AAA games we no longer get server exe's and get matchamking.
Quake champions is literally a stolen quake game where you don't get to own it, quake fans wanted a quake they owned and controlled like the first 4 quakes, with QeRadiant, dedicated servers, etc.
Quake champions can only exist in a world where companies have won and games are being coded in criminally underhanded ways to deny local application game files.
Over the last 10 years and 1000+ of hours of gaming, I've literally never used a single "feature" or had a single positive interaction with steam other than downloading the games (for which a zipped installer would have worked just fine), yet I had many cases where I couldn't play because steam forced update but couldn't download it due to slow connection/really wanted to go online on the plane because offline mode used to be buggy/had the update install and completely break steam/couldn't login/connect to valve servers, etc.
They were fixing these but new stuff always comes up (and is 0% justified), and some stuff is by "design" e.g. "offline" mode still installs steam updates. At this point I have steam completely firewalled out and I turn that off only when I want to get a specific game or a DLC.
Steam is malware (so are Win10 ads, forced updates, etc.)
I know Microsoft keeps trying and failing, but I think they will eventually succeed with a separate version of Windows that is clearly a separate "walled garden" product, that is far more secure, far better performance, only supports UWP apps, and is uncoupled from being in the backwards-compatibility hell that the "main" Windows variant is.
Such a product "powered by Microsoft Office" would be an incredibly compelling Chromebook competitor. As to whether or not it will support ARM, support AD, or even be open source, only time will tell. I could definitely see something like Windows X or a rebuilt Windows S (locked into S) being a glimpse into this future.
Marketing it would be an incredibly tiny needle to thread-- promoting the OS can run Microsoft Office while immediately changing the message when they ask about every old no-source-available compiled-for-Windows-98 app.
It feels like the people who can switch easily probably jumped to Chromebooks already.
The latter (designed for dual screen laptops) is coming to single screen devices. https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246561/microsoft-windows...
It's a game as a service, sure, but that doesn't make it a scam. That's like saying that renting an apartment is a scam because you don't own it. You can question if it's a good financial decision, but that doesn't make it not a fair exchange of money for a product.
Not everyone in the industry is on one side here, and if you want to fight this war efficiently and intelligently, you need to know precisely who your enemies are.
Microsoft doesn't do discrete OS updates anymore but I definitely feel like it might time to give Linux another go next time I upgrade my hardware. There's less and less software the holds me to MS. This is due to so many programs going to the web - Google Docs suite, dictionaries etc and partially due to better Linux support for software I use such as Unity or games via Wine. What's held me back until now has been poor graphics driver support.