News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by eloff on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:14AM (#23125329)
They solicited feedback. He gave them feedback that was well reasoned and well supported with citations, regardless of whether it was true or not. They didn't warn him, they fired him and the outrage mob wanted to ensure he never worked again.

If you're going to solicit feedback and then fire someone because you don't like it - at least specify that it must be non-dissenting feedback. Be honest here about the dishonest game being played.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by wpietri on Saturday May 09, 2020 @12:01PM (#23125835)
That not even vaguely what that memo was. It was a blatantly political argument. Its go link was "pc-considered-harmful". Its central thesis was that Google leans too far to the left.
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by eloff on Saturday May 09, 2020 @01:56PM (#23126881)
I think we're talking about the same memo, just a different take on it. To be clear, it was a response to a solicitation of feedback on a diversity program.

If a company can't handle honest, carefully researched and presented feedback - they shouldn't ask for it.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by wpietri on Saturday May 09, 2020 @02:03PM (#23126948)
Your notion is that whatever an employee does should be fine as long as it technically complies with a the wording of vague, general request made by a coworker?

That would be one way to run a company, I guess. But I've never heard of one that actually works like that.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by eloff on Saturday May 09, 2020 @04:34PM (#23128100)
If you want to have an insightful discussion, one should refrain from making strawman arguments.

I think Demore's memo has little place in a company, but neither does the diversity program that spawned it. Better to keep politics out of the work place. But given the context, it was fully justified, regardless of its merits or lack thereof and I think the person who leaked it committed a real sin here, as did the company for firing him.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by wpietri on Saturday May 09, 2020 @07:58PM (#23129215)
You can't keep politics out of the workplace. Your notion that diversity programs shouldn't exist is enormously political, and company having them or refusing to have them is political either way. Especially here in America, where the rights and privileges of white men have been intensely political topics for literal centuries. You are practicing politics right here, right now.
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by eloff on Sunday May 10, 2020 @10:20AM (#23132762)
A diversity program is inherently political, as you said. I don't think it has a place in a company. Again, I think leave your politics at home. You seem to think that's not possible, but that's how I would do things, were it up to me.

It's got nothing to do with men's or women's rights. I'm dismayed by that whole argument. Let the meritocracy rule and the chips fall where they may.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by wpietri on Sunday May 10, 2020 @10:43AM (#23132986)
Not having a diversity program is also political. The concept of meritocracy is political. Claiming that the things fitting with your political biases are non-political is political.
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by eloff on Sunday May 10, 2020 @11:13AM (#23133232)
If that's the case everything is political. I'm not sure I accept that.

What I want to say is I don't care about left or right or the agendas of either. Focus on the product, the customers, and the fight. Alexander the Great never had a diversity program. I'm not going to say he was the pinnacle of morality here, but maybe it's a good idea to focus on the important things if you want to be successful.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by wpietri on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:57PM (#23135081)
Wanting to ignore America's long history of sexism and racism is a political position. Wanting to ignore the effects of those is a political position. Your contributions here are political activism.

If you want to be a reactionary, fine. But please own it.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by eloff on Sunday May 10, 2020 @05:03PM (#23136156)
I'm not sure if reactionary is the label, but I'll own whatever side doesn't have diversity committees at work - or HR departments if I'm allowed to dream.
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by wpietri on Sunday May 10, 2020 @11:46PM (#23138716)
Well I'm glad we both agree you're now a political activist.