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Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by ashtonkem on Saturday May 09, 2020 @10:56AM (#23125166)
I think that’s extremely short sighted. Gender politics is politics; anything that comes close to the subject is either already political or will become political extremely quickly.
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by SpicyLemonZest on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:23AM (#23125441)
But that's surely not true. Programs to encourage women in software engineering are generally seen as apolitical. (And that's not a judo move or anything - they get broad bipartisan support whenever it comes up in Congress.)
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by ashtonkem on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:27AM (#23125482)
They’re just popular politics.

Also, if Congress weighs in on something, isn’t it de-facto political?

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by JSavageOne on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:17AM (#23125368)
> Gender politics is politics

I don't understand how that statement discredits anything I said.

Politics is peoples' opinions and is subjective/normative (eg. things "ought" to be this way). Science attempts to explain how nature works (eg. this is why things are this way), and is objective. That memo was not political.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by ashtonkem on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:26AM (#23125469)
Politics is about how resources should be spent, not how things “ought” to be. Posting a disagreement about policy is inherently political, especially about something as charged as gender, no matter how much science you may cite.
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by JSavageOne on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:41AM (#23125632)
> Politics is about how resources should be spent

> how things “ought” to be

Those are the same thing.

> Posting a disagreement about policy is inherently political

Yes if his memo was a paragraph saying "We should change our gender policy to X, Y, and Z", then yes it would be political.

Instead it is a 10 page document explaining how biological differences may explain gender imbalances, and the implications of this.

But sure if you want to dismiss it as "politics", then I guess there's no reasoning with you.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by ashtonkem on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:51AM (#23125725)
I don’t dismiss things by calling them political, although apparently you do. I just think it’s insanely naive to believe that you can write a 10 page document on a gender related company policy and not have it become political quickly.

You can’t post a 10 document article in response to a corporate policy about gender in hiring and not expect that to be interpreted as an argument against said policy. Whether or not that was his original intent doesn’t really matter, the interpretation of his post was both predictable and understandable. He should’ve seen that coming, and to argue that he was just apolitically interested in the science of gender is disingenuous.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by JSavageOne on Saturday May 09, 2020 @01:17PM (#23126509)
> You can’t post a 10 document article in response to a corporate policy about gender in hiring and not expect that to be interpreted as an argument against said policy.

The memo certainly challenged Google's corporate policy. So what? You think anyone who has an opposing view on a corporate policy and can back their view up with facts and evidence should be fired?

Personally I'm not big on authoritarianism/totalitarianism, but maybe that's just me.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by ashtonkem on Saturday May 09, 2020 @03:20PM (#23127563)
You’re absolutely making up my point, which is extremely annoying.

All I’m saying is that arguing about policy is politics. That’s it.

Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by piflon on Saturday May 09, 2020 @12:23PM (#23126047)
Decisions about resources make no sense except in the context of trying to achieve some effect. Political issues are almost always implicitly about how things "ought" to be; the resource decisions are in service of those goals.
Re:James Damore and three others end Google suit by ashtonkem on Saturday May 09, 2020 @01:03PM (#23126388)
Resource allocation is more concrete and direct than discussions about how society ought to be arranged, although you’re right that you allocate resources in order to achieve a desired social outcome.

Discussions about how society ought to be tend to be vague and aspirational: “society ought to be more just” is more vague than “we should spend more money on these programs”. The latter might serve the former, but it’s also specific and actionable, which is why I draw the distinction where I do.