What is wrong with java performance? I think the garbage collection in Java is probably (if not) one of the best.

Start-up times are an issue. But once warmed-up the JVM is very performant provided tuned well.

Except Java is extremely performant and if your engineering team doesn't know exactly what they're doing there's often a good chance they'll both use more time and create a slower product with a low level language as far as I know.

umm wat.

> Except Java is extremely performant and if your engineering team doesn't know exactly what they're doing there's often a good chance they'll both use more time and create a slower product with a low level language as far as I know.

So agreed that it'll probably take more time if the team doesn't know what they're doing. But as for slower product? Ehh I think that was the point GP was making; Yeah, its' an overenginnered product that results at times, but it's got just enough guardrails that you hopefully just get a slow, or at worst buggy product, versus a product that doubles as a loot box of future CVEs.

The point is: for the majority of programmers - including a number who can write both reasonable reasonable C and reasonable Java - they will create better, faster programs with Java than with C and in shorter time.

There are absolutely times when Java doesn't cut it but at that point your options are getting increasingly limited in many ways: who can build and maintain it, what kind of languages and libraries you can use, the hardware you use, tuning etc.

Exactly. Ensure the average developer can contribute. Of course top tier devs can deliver better products using bare JS.

It’s completely different. Java is a back end language - even if we accept that Java is 20% slower (just making up a number. I don’t know whether it’s slower or not), hardware is cheap and you control it. You don’t have any control of the client’s computer or their bandwidth.