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Re:Rosetta: The Engine Behind Cray’s Slingshot Exascale-Era ... by dekhn on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @10:39AM (#23091461)
I worked in supercomputers for some time (molecular dynamics simulations, among other things). I am not convinced that the additional cost is worth it, with the exception of a few things. For example, if you're a nation-state and you need to make a submarine that is 5% quieter, or 5% faster, or whatever, for national defense purposes, having a CFD simulator that can work with sizes of problems or turnaround times that are significantly better can be a strategic advantage.

There just aren't that many codes that can take full advantage of these monsters, and there are other, cheaper, faster ways to obtain roughly the same results. For example, in my ex-field of molecular dynamics, it seems like you can get away with minimal interconnect by running many simulations and pooling statistics across runs, which needs a bunch of IO bandwidth but doesn't need supercomputer-style interconnect.

What's interesting is that supercomputer hardware is really great for high performance ML training, but the supercomputer folks came to that realization later, and only after companies like Uber ported the tensorflow distributed implementation to MPI (Horovod). And most of the ML people were poking around with slow interconnects. Now it's converging- the largest use of supercomputer-style systems in 10 years will be ML training, not physical simulations.

Supercomputer spend has only limited impact on forward technological process.

Re:Rosetta: The Engine Behind Cray’s Slingshot Exascale-Era ... by gnufx on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @02:31PM (#23094623)
There are different types of molecular dynamics that non-ex people run, and different modes of the same code may be more or less latency sensitive (e.g. two "standard" Gromacs benchmark cases I'd have to look up). While I'm unconvinced of the overall merits of exascale, it's clearly not true that you can generally do all the large-scale, high-resolution, or whatever, calculations in an embarrassingly parallel way. I haven't kept up with the public applications for CORAL et al, but there are definitely enough for petascale and above.

My bitter experience, particularly with "big data" people, is that they just won't be told by those with long relevant research computing experience in HPC and similar. It's hardly that HPC people don't know what systems can do, particularly if they live and breathe things like distributed linear algebra. I despaired, and largely gave up, when someone strode into a chair From Industry and assured us that the university didn't do Big Data, notwithstanding LHC, astronomy, sequencing, synchrotron work, etc., and was then going to build a Big Data Cluster from a few knackered PCs (and in a basement!) to better the HPC systems. Then I had MPI explained to me.

Re:Rosetta: The Engine Behind Cray’s Slingshot Exascale-Era ... by C1sc0cat on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @11:16AM (#23091887)
But with modelling having much more grunt allows you to use much better models for things like hydrodynamics modelling / weather simulations.

Which beats using a physical model and highspeed film projected onto a wall covered in graph paper and manually digitising data.

Re:Rosetta: The Engine Behind Cray’s Slingshot Exascale-Era ... by dekhn on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @11:20AM (#23091963)
if you can fit your model on a single GPU, do that, before parallelizing. Getting more grunt from tightly bound parallelism is one of the hardest problems in software engineering that there is. Weather prediction and climate modelling (two distinct fields in supercomputer) do qualify (you can't fit a high res model of earth in the ram of a single GPU).