News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by dang on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @10:10PM (#23087284)
It always fascinates me when a comment says "I find this interesting but it doesn't belong here". Finding this interesting is the definition of it belonging here (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Of course there are different kinds of interesting and HN is for some and not for others.

It's good for HN to defy expectations, because predictability and repetition are the worst things for curiosity. But it's good to defy expectations in an interesting way. The distribution of defied expectations is bimodal; when it's bad it's very bad.

On the third hand: it's also good if—more rarely—there is an occasional bit, just a wafer-thin bit, of "why is this on HN" agitation of the bad kind too. It gets the juices flowing. It means readers care. I think it bonds users more closely with the site in the end. But it should be rare. Since there's so much variance in what people like to see, and HN is a non-siloed site (i.e. we're all in the same theater), every user sees a lot of things they dislike, so we mostly have the opposite problem.

One other point. People sometimes react to these unpredictable submissions by saying "oh, so stories about little kids driving [or whatever $story was] are on topic now?" But of course that is exactly the wrong conclusion. Since this story made HN's front page, a follow-up about, say, a 7-year-old driving a tractor, would have power-law-dropoff levels of uninterestingness. And a 3-year-old driving a motorboat would be right out. Rather, there's some other unexpectedly interesting off-beat story waiting to play this role for next time, and the point is that you can't predict it from any sequence. Actually such submissions are surprisingly uncommon—I feel like they show up maybe 2 or 3 times a year, if that. That's why I'd be curious to see links.

Edit: just to be clear—I'm not criticizing your comment! I'm saying you're an ideal HN user.

Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by SilasX on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @11:09PM (#23087571)
>It always fascinates me when a comment says "I find this interesting but it doesn't belong here". Finding this interesting is the definition of it belonging here (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Of course there are different kinds of interesting and HN is for some and not for others.

That's not what the guidelines say. They say:

>>Anything that good hackers would find interesting.

There are all kinds of things I find interesting but which would not be interesting to "good hackers" generally. I would think you'd expect posters to make the distinction and separate "what I personally like" from "what I personally like due to hacker-related reasons".

As an example of the difference, I'd be really interested in an article on how to do better on doubles mode on Dance Dance Revolution, but that's such narrow interest that it doesn't really belong here; me finding it interesting isn't enough.

Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by dang on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @11:48PM (#23087737)
That guideline isn't limited to what good hackers would find interesting for hacking-related reasons. It's simply: what good hackers would find interesting. The key phrase is "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity".

An article on doubles mode in DDR might be interesting in HN's sense, or it might not. If it were just a basic tutorial, that probably wouldn't be—tutorials are useful to people who are working on a specific task, but have little appeal to the general reader. If, on the other hand, it went into the design of doubles mode, the history of it, why it is the way it is, what makes it harder than you might expect, clever things that have been discovered about it—all of that would be on topic. Something that could go either way might be a story about, say, a couple who met because they were good at doubles mode in DDR. That would depend on how good an article it was.

This is such an important point because the kind of story that gets excluded this way—the kind that people find interesting but assume that it's not hacker-related enough—can be the absolutely best kind of HN submission. Why? Because it's unexpected. It's the one you can't predict from any sequence.

(Edit: Unpredictability isn't the only quality that matters, but it's the rarest. Actually, maybe it is the only quality that matters. For a while I was thinking otherwise, because a front page consisting of random numbers would be unpredictable, but not interesting to read. On the other hand, it's unpredictable only along one axis. From another point of view it would be fully predictable: random numbers again?)

Keep in mind that finding something interesting isn't quite the same thing as liking it, and also when we say "interesting" we mean intellectual interest, not all kinds of interest. For example, there is social interest (the sort that powers celebrity gossip). There is political interest (wanting to know how one's side is doing against the other side). There is sexual interest (no comment needed). These things all have their place, but not here. On the other hand, there can also be overlap with intellectual curiosity, in which case it's fine, though the bar is higher in some cases than others.

Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by NotAnEconomist on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @12:47AM (#23087988)
> The key phrase is: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

> we mean intellectual interest, not all kinds of interest

> For example, there is social interest (the sort of thing that leads to celebrity gossip).

> These things all have their place, but not here.

I'd challenge the idea that this got upvoted for intellectual interest or that it belongs here.

Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by dang on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @03:24AM (#23088647)
> I'd challenge the idea that this got upvoted for intellectual interest

Of course we can only guess about that. No doubt the users who flagged the article feel the same way as you. On the other hand, I disagree because I can feel it touching my own intellectual curiosity: it's extraordinary that a 5-year-old could and would do that. Yes it's strongly sentimental, which is not usually our thing here, but it's important for HN to have the occasional story in that overlapping part of the Venn diagram.

This is one of the cases where a moderator's individual taste affects the site. Is that fair? No it is not, but there's an interesting reason to do it anyway: you need some sort of individual judgment affecting the site, in order to prevent it from converging into the brown noise of everyone-put-together. A system like HN can get itself into a rut otherwise, becoming too predictable and too common-denominator. I don't think that I'm the best individual to supply the perturbations; it's just that someone needs to, and for whatever reason I ended up in that role. Since this function is about bumping the system out of its grooves, sort of like the mutations in a genetic algorithm, it probably doesn't matter that much if I do a fabulous job on that point. I just need to not suck at it, and if that were the case, HN would probably be screwed for more significant reasons.

Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by chrisco255 on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @10:35PM (#23087425)
In my mind it's not really a technical article at all. Usually when we cover current events they have some connection to either science or technology and have some sort of intellectual quality to them. This story strikes me as an amusing news article that I'm sure is going viral on every social media outlet, so it feels like it's going to get plenty of exposure through those sources. That's the main thing, for me.

IF he was using Tesla autopilot to drive the car, then I'd find it HN worthy. ;-D

Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by dang on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @10:35PM (#23087432)
HN is definitely not just for technical articles. You're on stronger ground with a "they'd cover it on TV news" argument (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Then again, note that word probably (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426). In this case, the story is just so...uncorrelated that it manages to wrest on-topicness back from TV news. That's how I see it anyway, and of course many people disagree.

I think you're wrong about the article not being technical though. In a deeper sense it is.

Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by tvb12 on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @10:47PM (#23087475)
One of the funniest things I've read on HN is Gluten Free Antarctica (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18729224), which didn't have much to do with tech. I was glad to have come across it.
Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by dang on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @10:51PM (#23087494)
That one was correlated by author, though, because Maciej's a tech person and his articles have been prominent on HN for years—rightly so, because he's such a good writer, but not an example of the "you can't predict it from any sequence" test.
Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by eitland on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @12:42AM (#23087958)
This was an extremely clarifying comment.

I've posted it as a separate story, I wonder if that will work? For now at least it seems I cannot add comments there.

Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by dang on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @03:37AM (#23088714)
We don't allow links to HN posts as submissions. That's an old pg trick for containing the catnip of all-things-meta.
Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by tinus_hn on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @04:00AM (#23088822)
Well I do see a lot of Wikipedia links being posted with just the page title, which apart from selection is so low effort it looks like spam.
Re:Five-year-old boy stopped on highway driving from Utah to... by dang on Wednesday May 06, 2020 @04:46AM (#23089041)
That depends very much on the particular Wikipedia article. I wrote about this recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22990237

HN used to have a software penalty on wikipedia.org submissions and I was persuaded to remove it. For the time being.