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Re:Operating Systems Without Systemd by wtallis on Friday May 01, 2020 @09:35PM (#23048308)
There are many. Most amount to complaints about sysadmins having to re-learn a lot of stuff, much of which didn't actually need to be changed, at least not so thoroughly. Early on, most of the complaints centered around the poor migration path, the abandonment of plain text log files, and the absurdity of high-level user-facing software like the Gnome desktop environment having a hard dependency on a particular init system that many felt was still kinda half-baked. systemd as a project has also been a poster child for feature creep, and while technically many of the new features that have been added over the years are optional, in practice few distributions make it easy to partially opt-out of new systemd stuff. And through all of the controversy, the systemd maintainers have shown a stunning inability to acquire diplomacy skills; systemd has succeeded more in spite of their ability to promote it, rather than because of it.
Re:Operating Systems Without Systemd by Teknoman117 on Friday May 01, 2020 @09:47PM (#23048365)
Pretty much. There are components of systemd I really like. systemd-logind is really neat, it makes dealing with drm (direct rendering) devices nice by having a service where you can request access to GPUs without bumping into the problem of one process opened the endpoint and has exclusive control. It also makes dealing with machine events like closing your laptop's screen simple if you use a minimalistic window manager like i3.

systemd-resolved is nice if you're using systemd's network configuration system, but it's a pain when you're trying to run your own DNS server.

udev really shouldn't hard depend on systemd. I perfectly understand having some systemd specific integration, but why make it mandatory?

There being said, various people have been working to cut it into separate components (eudev, elogind, etc.)

Re:Operating Systems Without Systemd by microcolonel on Friday May 01, 2020 @10:43PM (#23048674)
> udev really shouldn't hard depend on systemd. I perfectly understand having some systemd specific integration, but why make it mandatory?

udev is part of systemd now, because the systemd developers were the only ones willing to maintain it.

Re:Operating Systems Without Systemd by RunningDroid on Saturday May 02, 2020 @03:50PM (#23054385)
Doesn't the existence of eudev disprove that?

(This is a serious question; I'm not trying to start a fight)

Re:Operating Systems Without Systemd by microcolonel on Sunday May 03, 2020 @02:23PM (#23060869)
I think the existence of eudev proves that somebody is now willing to maintain a udev, but it wasn't always the case.
Re:Operating Systems Without Systemd by TheGoddessInari on Monday May 04, 2020 @09:01PM (#23075231)
Eudev was forked in the immediate aftermath because systemd only cares about systemd. Even Torvalds strongly criticized systemd-udev maintainership[1].

1. https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/10/3/484

Re:Operating Systems Without Systemd by mekster on Monday May 04, 2020 @11:35PM (#23076216)
> at least not so thoroughly.

So you still thought some updates were supposed to happen but it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for systemd as people are too lazy to touch any mostly working legacy bits.