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Re:Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ ab... by analog31 on Thursday April 30, 2020 @08:24PM (#23037867)
In addition to just frightening people away from attending college, we could do some real things to make the skilled trades attractive to more people:

1. Real workplace safety laws with real enforcement

2. Better health care

3. Better safety net, including retirement

4. Stronger unions

5. Free continuous retraining

From time to time, I hire tradespeople to work around my house -- roofing, tree service, installing a sliding door, new Internet service, a new furnace, etc. One thing I've noticed is that the guys who are my age -- mid 50's -- are hobbling and broken. Many of them work for smaller businesses, as independent contractors, or in situations where they are conveniently "exempt" from things like health care, unemployment, etc.

At the smaller businesses where they work, regulatory enforcement is probably minimal to nonexistent. I would guess that abuse of wage and overtime laws is probably rampant.

Much of the work is seasonal.

Much of it is at the mercy of the construction cycle.

Many of the trades are in businesses that are largely family owned, which puts non family members at a severe disadvantage at finding jobs and advancing beyond the entry level.

So, don't just cite some anecdotes, or throw starting wages around, but take a deep look into what the working class deals with in the US, and start making changes.

Re:Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ ab... by the-pigeon on Thursday April 30, 2020 @08:28PM (#23037893)
I think this idea that white collar jobs require college is generally wrong.

The core of the issue is that colleges produce degrees instead of people capable of doing specific jobs. If you want education for education's sake this is fine and great. But most of us don't have the money for that and need college to give us the specific skills needed for an in demand job. That's what needs to change, colleges need to prepare people for real jobs. Or be replaced by trade schools for white collar jobs or apprenticeships.

The main problem with apprenticeships is that you have to pay them and they don't produce enough work for their cost in most industries.

Re:Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ ab... by analog31 on Thursday April 30, 2020 @09:36PM (#23038273)
The state that I live in, Wisconsin, has a multi tiered system of higher education. The University of Wisconsin in Madison is a world class research university with all of the trimmings.

Then there is a system of public universities around the state that offer fewer programs but similar admission and academic standards -- they are also less expensive and have slightly lower prestige, but produce a lot of trained people such as engineers, nurses, programmers, and so forth.

And then there is an even larger network of trade schools (aka "community colleges" in some states) that tend to be smaller but are accessible to students who live at home or commute to school part time while also working. Those schools all offer computer programming and other tech related trades.

Many of those schools also offer programs that provide the first 2 years of a conventional bachelors degree, with guaranteed transfer to one of the universities for the rest of the degree. These schools are designed for students who are working, raising families, etc. A lot of people think those programs are a rollicking good deal.

All of that stuff is available. The high schools immerse kids in information about these options.

In my view, any plan that successfully addresses the college cost situation will do so through the regional colleges and trade schools, which are already excellent. I have colleagues who went to those schools, and you can send me a dozen more. There's huge peer pressure on kids to attend the gilded private colleges, but I'm not sure that I see the value.

A problem is that the private schools are funded by private wealth through their endowments, whereas public schools are funded by workers through our taxes.