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Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by pathartl on Thursday April 30, 2020 @03:50PM (#23035303)
It seems like they're doing all they can to get developers on their platform. Not to establish Windows developers like they have in the past, but to have others see Windows as just another platform.

We're reaching a revolution from moving from x86 to ARM and I think the more Microsoft positions themselves like this, the less likely they are to be left in some weird compatibility limbo.

As weird as this sounds, I feel more confident with Microsoft being able to do a successful transition to ARM than Apple at this point.

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by pianoben on Thursday April 30, 2020 @05:33PM (#23036412)
In fact, the _have_ transitioned to ARM, way back around the time of the first Surface tablet. Windows and Office have been running on ARM since at least, what, 2012?
Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by loeg on Thursday April 30, 2020 @05:44PM (#23036512)
Windows NT in 2000? I guess ARM was not a going concern at the time, but Windows was remarkably portable in 2000 before the dark decade of more or less exclusively Wintel.
Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by zrm on Thursday April 30, 2020 @09:46PM (#23038338)
https://archive.org/details/Microsoft_Windows_NT_Server_Vers...

"Disc contains code to run on Windows NT-compatible x86, Pentium, MIPS, R4x00, Alpha, PowerPC and Pentium Pro systems"

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by jupp0r on Thursday April 30, 2020 @09:41PM (#23038309)
Windows itself has never been the problem, but the Software that’s running on it.
Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by pnako on Thursday April 30, 2020 @08:36PM (#23037958)
Way before that they had ARM-based Pocket PCs running Windows CE (or Windows Mobile).
Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by GordonS on Friday May 01, 2020 @05:40AM (#23040480)
Windows is my daily driver, and I spend most of my time at work these days building dotnet core applications for Linux on both x64 and ARM. It's a great dev experience

Seeing what was coming with cloud and making .NET cross-platform was very well timed.

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by DeathArrow on Friday May 01, 2020 @07:49AM (#23041116)
Microsoft tried countless times to move to Arm.

The most recent efforts are with their Surface Pro X, their SQ1 CPU and pushing Qualcomm to release Snapdragon 8cx CPU for ARM laptops.

But most software development companies didn't care enough to recompile their software for Arm and running X86 software in emulation is not exactly a good experience.

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by VWWHFSfQ on Thursday April 30, 2020 @08:47PM (#23038015)
It will be very difficult until Windows is POSIX-compatible. Whatever that means, I don't know. But it can't just be the Windows Subsystem for Linux. The whole OS needs to have POSIX compatibilities.
Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by wongarsu on Thursday April 30, 2020 @09:31PM (#23038243)
Windows NT used to have a POSIX subsystem [1] that applications could use instead of the Win32 subsystem. So the Windows NT kernel is designed with the option of POSIX compatibility. Arguably the Subsystem for Linux is the current successor of the POSIX subsystem, providing POSIX compatible access to the kernel along with a POSIX compatible shell and UNIX commands.

Obviously the Win32 subsystem isn't POSIX compatible, but I'm not sure why we would want that.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by jacobush on Friday May 01, 2020 @01:18AM (#23039338)
That subsystem was just so they could tick off the “POSIX” box for Department of Defence.
Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by pjmlp on Friday May 01, 2020 @05:06AM (#23040323)
That was one of many, then came SFU, followed by SUA.

GNU/Linux users should be happy that old Microsoft didn't bother to do that much with POSIX subsystem.

Had they actually invested into keeping it up to date, and many of us on PC land would never bothered with FOSS UNIX clones.

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by jacobush on Friday May 01, 2020 @05:14AM (#23040363)
Yeah, that may be true, but on the other hand, had they made it useable, portabilith with other Unix would have been a simpler option.

Simpler than Win32 + Unix portability in any case. Or in some cases, software would have been ported to Win32 at all.

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by pjmlp on Friday May 01, 2020 @08:03AM (#23041185)
What UNIX portability?

Back when I was in the university, and Linux kernel was still at 1.0, I had the pleasure to write C and C++ code across Xenix, DG/UX, Aix, HP-UX, Solaris, BSD and naturally Linux also.

There is POSIX, there is what each OS actually do for the implementation defined behaviours, then the whole set of APIs that made each UNIX variant unique and were the selling point of the UNIX clone to start with.

Autoconf and friends did not start out of masochism.

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by DeathArrow on Friday May 01, 2020 @07:57AM (#23041155)
>Yeah, that may be true, but on the other hand, had they made it useable, portabilith with other Unix would have been a simpler option.

That's not necessarily the case. See macOS which is using different GUI libraries, Metal instead of Vulkan etc.

So you can't recompile macOS apps to use them on Linux.

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by DeathArrow on Friday May 01, 2020 @07:54AM (#23041142)
People forgot that Microsoft was one of the biggest UNIX vendors with Xenix and for a long time, Microsoft had the highest-volume AT&T Unix license.
Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by dmitriid on Friday May 01, 2020 @05:10AM (#23040344)
In reality, there are very very few people who care about POSIX compatibility. Because there are no POSIX-compatible systems in the wild.

POSIX-certified systems conform to different POSIX standards. And most of them are of no use to the average developer such as AIX, HP-UX, Solaris.

The rest are largely compatible which means they are not compatible. And yes, that includes every single one of Linux distributions and FreeBSD.

Re:Rust/WinRT Public Preview by DeathArrow on Friday May 01, 2020 @08:09AM (#23041217)
I am beginning to think that while POSIX, Unix and X11 might have been innovative and very useful in the '70s and ' 80s, now they are really old and most of the computing landscape changed.

We need better operating systems metaphors.